quote:

originally posted by Chica:
[qb]If anyone has any further information on the dual nationality process (Val? Tony?) I would be interested in knowing what it entails and if you had to renounce your US citizenship as you apply for the Spanish... [/qb]

Can't help ya out on that one chica because I've kept up my American citizenship and haven't sought Spanish citizenship. I'm pretty sure that Val's in the same boat as well. (Right Val?)

However, I am interested in getting in touch with BAS and finding out about how he did what he did. If I don't get in trouble for taking out Spanish citizenship via my wife and don't have to renonuce my American citizenship, I'd think her over pretty seriously.

I always get depressed when the elections come up and I can't vote. I mean, you guys know how much I like to complain and then walk around saying, "Espa�a va bien..." It'd be cool to be a real bonafied legal eagle just like everyone else.

P.S. I don't think you have to wait 8-10 years to become a US citizen. Mari's a green card holder in the US and we'd inquired about the subject last time we were at immigration and they told us that, as long as you're living in the US and have residency, you can legally apply and be granted citizenship.

Hi all

this is in reference to having to renounce US citizenship if accepting citizenship from a foreign country. this is a vague area of american immigration policy.

it is not clearly stated anywhere that US citizenship must be renounced. it does however, state the following:

Current U.S. law and policy

The current nationality laws of the United States do not specifically refer to dual nationality and according to many citizens who read them, are vague. It is up to you of course to determine and interpret what the policy means to you. Here are some excerpts from the Department of State's policy regarding dual nationality. Other links are also provided below.

"The automatic acquisition or retention of a foreign nationality does not affect U.S. citizenship; however, under limited circumstances, the acquisition of a foreign nationality upon one's own application or the application of a duly authorized agent may cause loss of U.S. citizenship under Section 349 (a)(1) of the Immigration and Nationality Act [8 U.S.C. 1481 (a)(1)]. Dual Nationality".

"In order for loss of nationality to occur under Section 349 (a)(1), it must be established that the naturalization was obtained voluntarily by a person eighteen years of age or older with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. Such an intention may be shown by the person's statements or conduct, Vance v. Terrazas, 444 U.S. 252 (1980), but in most cases it is assumed that Americans who are naturalized in other countries intend to keep their U.S. citizenship. As a result, they have both nationalities".

if u have dual citizenship from a visa waiver country you enjoy a more privileged position with the US. therefore, it can be inferred that having dual citizenship with the one of the following list of countries will not pose a danger in terms of having to renounce involuntarily. for example, if u where a colombian citizen or an iraqi citizen u MAY have to renounce citiznship as an INS agent COULD perceive this as a conflict of interest if u possesed both nationalities.

VISA WAIVER COUNTRIES
VWP-How a country qualifies

But, will you owe taxes to both the U.S. and Spain?

booklady,

the IRS GOV website is the best source for who needs to file expatriate taxes.
IRS Publication 54 pertains exclusively to this issue.

in spain, the Ministerio de Hacienda is the organismo that is in charge of taxes.

there are also threads here-
tax thread
and here-
tax thread

booklady, te deseo suerte con tus planes de retiro..mi padre esta en lo mismo

joquecalor, you ARE A MACHINE!!!

You GO GIRL!!!

Yipppppeeeee, the UK figures on the list of VISA WAIVER COUNTRIES, I am good to go baaaaaaabyyyyyyy!!!

Saludos,
jer...

I asked about this once before, and I now know tony torero is absolutely correct in the u.s. residency area, as long as you live here and have residency you can apply, from there who knows, and the only downside I could find is what Booklady said, that depending on how much time you spend where, you quite easily could owe taxes to two countries whether you lack the technical recognition of dual citizenship or not. just dont worry about "dual" and still acquire them both, and stay out of the U.S. long enough every year to avoid Taxes. Sounds simple enough, now, get married,hahaha.

Ain't I the lucky one?

I am a USA citizen living in Ohio with an EU citizen (he's a UK guy with a US Green Card), we assume we'll need to marry sometime anyway, and we want to go live in Spain permanently within the next two years. Should we get married now, in the US, or do it in London, or just wait till we get to Spain?

Can anyone tell me if there's an advantage in any case? I assume I (a USA citizen) cannot legally reside or work in Spain after my three month tourist visa expires, unless I'm legally married to an EU person.

Do advise, por favor.
Rebekah

quote:

"we assume we'll need to marry sometime anyway,"

Who said romance was dead

Just kidding Rebekah

Your question on the most advantagous place to marry is an EXCELLENT one.

I would assume the sooner the better to start working on paperwork but where I am not sure

Anyone?

Saludos,
jer...

quote:

originally posted by fintona:
[qb] Don't know about tubby murphy but i'm sure you'll find plenty of irish citizens looking for a way into the U.S.!![/qb]

Wow, are they as pretty and funloving as the women we met in Ireland last spring? I'd like to set one up with my brother! He needs another girlfriend :jeje:

There is an agreement between the US and Spain that prevents double taxation. No- you would not have to pay to both countries- its a bit of a pain but what it comes down to is filing paperwork with the country that you're not paying taxes in that proves that you paid taxes in the other country. For this I would go to an accountant specialized in international matters- at least for the consultation to find out exactly which papers you need to file

As per the visa waiver countries. Joquelor I disagree with you. All the visa waiver countries are is a list of countries that you don't have to apply for a visa to enter the US to be there 3 months or less- like being a US citizen going to Spain- you don't need to apply for a visa to be there up to 3 months. Having a passport from one of these countries doesn't give you any special priviledge in the US- especially considering were talking about people that actually possess a US passport. It still does not qualify as dual nationality.

As per the US Department of State:

Dual Nationality
The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.
A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

As for paying taxes in two countries as an ex-pat,Congress just passed some new legislation in the past couple weeks that will require them to pay US taxes as well the country of residence! Check with the IRS!

Gracias, espe3. You have very thoroughly researched this. Yo for one am glad to see the deeper side of the issue.

Paulandirene " another girlfriend" is this for replacement or for variety- more than 1 at once is just greedy! I don't think immigration to the U.S. is a high as it used to be, especailly with the celtic tiger economy etc but it's still the major destination for those who decide to go abroad to work for the summer of to move away from ireland!
We're not a bad lot-definitely worth sending going over for a look anyway!

Hey espe3, you and your extensive knowledge never cease to amaze me, keep up the GREAT work

Mine is the case of "a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth" as I was born in Scotland to American parents.

Saludos,
jer...

Jer-First off- Thank you, glad I can help! Now back to the issue at hand- your case is different.

The thing with having more than one passport- for example, I too was born outside the US (Military brat)and although I'm not entitiled to nationality to my country of birth, I am from the countries of both of my parents- US/Spain- the reason its taken so long for me is because well- you have to find a person that knows what they're doing- which is why I'm in the mess I'm in now- but the new law helps because now it makes it VERY clear. Scotland is one of those exceptions- although the US still doen't recognize dual nationality (with ireland yes- has to do with the problems and the amount of immigrants that fled to the US and trying to give the Irish and descendants the option to return- youth - kind of like what Spain is doing- trying to get some of their people back) that yes, having both passports is legal for you. Its a bit confusing why its possible for some people and not others- but it all comes down to the rights you have by birth and if you're not one of those exceptions- what CHOICES you make.

There is a loophole in the whole loosing the citizenship thing- again it only works with Am citizens from birth- is that if you do 'renounce' your am citizenship and get another one- if you get questioned about it all you have to say is that you didn't realize that it meant you were no longer american and that's that. Its really weak- so really no real way to have people loose what is there's - again by birth! The thing is to not advertise it, INS and the State Dept. doesn't like that! Naturalized AM citizens on the other hand- CAN lose AM citizenship if they opt for another... but remember, any country your born in (this is a general rule- I'm sure there are some exceptions) your citizenship is yours FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!! You can't shake it no matter what you do- no matter what piece of paper you have that says otherwise. Perfect example are the people that my friend at the Embassy said have been waiting 20+ years to lose their Am nationality- its never really going to happen. Really once you have a regular social security number...However, one important thing for people to remember is that these rules change... what is true today may not be tomorrow, especially with all that's going on in the world. Also, this is serious business and yes, you do need to be prepared to lose your AM nationality as it is possible- which is also why they say you do- it may actually happen!

ToniG
Back to double taxation- that BITES! I'll have to research that some more- I'll get back to you guys on it.