hi espe3

in reference to your comment about VWM countries:

quote:

Having a passport from one of these countries doesn't give you any special priviledge in the US- especially considering were talking about people that actually possess a US passport. It still does not qualify as dual nationality.

I never said visa waiver country nationals qualified as dual nationals. my statement was very clear in saying that the US and Visa Waiver countries enjoy a special relationship in terms of possible proclusion from renouncing NOT in terms of being granted residency/citizenship. Being a member of the VWP WILL NOT by virtue of the fact grant dual nationality. It only facilitates the means by which u enter member countries and in a minute amount of cases may grant a member a US green card through the lottery. Since BCIS grants visas by numbers those countries with the least amount of emigrants are more prone to being granted visas. There is NO correlation between VWM countries and the granting of dual nationality. please read:

quote:

if u have dual citizenship from a visa waiver country you enjoy a more privileged position with the US. therefore, it can be inferred that having dual citizenship with the one of the following list of countries will not pose a danger in terms of having to renounce involuntarily. for example, if u where a colombian citizen or an iraqi citizen u MAY have to renounce citizenship as an INS agent COULD perceive this as a conflict of interest if u possesed both nationalities.

Espe3, as far as taxation:

quote:

There is an agreement between the US and Spain that prevents double taxation. No- you would not have to pay to both countries- its a bit of a pain but what it comes down to is filing paperwork with the country that you're not paying taxes in that proves that you paid taxes in the other country.

YES you may be liable as an american expatriate. The tax code is a study in exponential growth much like my shoe closet .ToniG is absolutely correct. This is why it is important to direct people to the IRS and specifically Publication 54 which deals exclusively with this issue.

hope this clarification helps

quote:

originally posted by fintona:
[qb] " another girlfriend" is this for replacement or for variety- more than 1 at once is just greedy! [/qb]

Fintona, I did mean "replacement", but didn't word it too well. :jeje:

quote:

originally posted by rebrites:
[qb] Ain't I the lucky one?
[/qb]

Hi Rebekah... Yes you sure are!

quote:

originally posted by rebrites:
[qb]we assume we'll need to marry sometime anyway, and we want to go live in Spain permanently within the next two years. Should we get married now, in the US, or do it in London, or just wait till we get to Spain?

Can anyone tell me if there's an advantage in any case? [/qb]

My wife and I (same situation as you) were originally married in the US. We then requested a 'libro de familia' from the Spanish Consulate in Chicago...(No te pilla muy lejos ) We just had to present our American Marriage license and they convalidated our marriage with this.

So you see? We didn't even have to come to Spain to legally be married there. We didn't eventually have a second ceremony in Spain for my wife's family's benefit. (Well, we enjoyed receiving the additional gifts too! ) However, this was really more of a formality.

You should however have this done before applying for your N.I.E. (N�mero de Identificaci�n de Extranjero) which is the Spanish equivalent of a Green Card. I hope that helps...

P.S.

quote:

originally posted by espe3:
[qb] There is an agreement between the US and Spain that prevents double taxation. No- you would not have to pay to both countries[/qb]

This I didn't know and it's always concerned me greatly which is why I save absolutely everything since we probably will return to 'la madre patria' one of these days.

You've greatly eased my mind espe3. Just for that, I'll name my next child after you! espe3ito or espe3ita, we'll see!

:cheers:

quote:

"...since we probably will return to 'la madre patria' one of these days."

Say it aint so tonytorero!!!

Going back to the U.S.A. after living in Spain for so long

Talk about culture shock!!!

Saludos,
jer...

quote:

Tony writes:
Just for that, I'll name my next child after you! espe3ito or espe3ita, we'll see!

Are you trying to tell us something Tony??

quote:

originally posted by jer:
[qb]

quote:

"...since we probably will return to 'la madre patria' one of these days."

Say it aint so tonytorero!!! [/qb]

Not to worry buddy. It won't be happening any time soon. (I'll be around for plenty more barbecue's between now and then!) I was rather referring to the wonderous day when I'm successful enough to keep my pad in la Villa and buy me about 10 acres or so in N.E. Kansas so as to inaugurate the much anticipated "Rancho Estinky" that I have always dreamed of and spend time each year in both places. You know what they say, You can take a boy out of Kansas... but you can't take the Kansas out of the boy...

quote:

originally posted by Chica:
[qb] Are you trying to tell us something Tony?? [/qb]

Ok guys, I was saving this for the 'babachew', but yes...I'm expecting quints in October! I'm a little unsure if I'm ready, but Mari's really excited!

:cheers:

Wow to all mmers,
Thanks for the great double citizen info! Now that I have all the info, what about the man. And who know, maybe through all the paperwork, love will shine through!! See, im an optimist!

As a side note, ill take an Israeli passport too! Yum, Israeli men (and yes, I have had experience with this, so no need to make more threads about Israeli men, jeje)

Joquecalor and everybody else... I've only begun research, so more to follow... BUT some important discoveries.

Joquecalor- I've been looking into the links you posted and I've started to read... here's what I get from the IRS stuff so far: The form that they're really giving to fill out- is for AM citizens who work for an american company/sponsored to work in a different country for work. So, for all of you expats out there that packed up and moved to Spain on your own and set up shop on your own- this does not involve you. Can you imagine asking a Spanish company to produce you a W-4 so you can file income taxes! Also, this doesn't count even if you do work for an American company but were hired as a resident or Spaniard. To file form 54 you really have to have been sponsored by a company stateside and they decided to ship you over. As for the self employed people- they're dreaming that these people are going to file... but like I said, I'm only starting research so I will clarify any mistakes I discover as I go along!

So Tony- Esperanza if its a girl.. I have one of those long spanish names (3 before my 2 last names!) so I have 2 more girls names if you need them! ;P for a boy I don't know!

For social security info- important for those who may return to the States at some time :

Pg. 10 of form 54: Look at the Binational Social Security (Totalization) Agreements. Its in a PDF file so cutting and pasting is a challenge- I'll fill it in later.

For the most part most of us would get the exclusion anyway- you'd have to be making over $80,000 before the really complicated stuff kicked in. Again, with the agreement between Spain and the US with the social security etc. is the most important for most of us. I know people in this situation so between IRS and personal research I'll report my discoveries.

Ok Espe....are you an accountant or an engineer? You are so thorough, certainly you must be putting that trait to work for you!!!! (I hope you take this comment in the spirit of jest) Am impressed with your efforts!! You ARE looking for marriageable Spanish men, too aren't you???

Toni- I'm neither! My expertise is in PR/Marketing- which I guess explains some of it... and the fact I'm a military brat!

As far as looking for a marriageable Spanish man... why are you asking? jejeje! Someday I hope to marry- better for me if he's spanish (simplifies ALOT!) but no, I don't need to if you're asking because of papers- that I get all on my own! When/if I get married I'll do it for love. :ks: :l:

Hello.

Someone mentioned the "dual-nationality" issue as well as tax issue.

I understand that those US citizens changing nationality here in Spain have that info. automatically passed onto the US embassy. Therefore, theoretically, the US embassy could refuse to renew his/her US passport. However, I understand that in the past they just ignored this and you could keep on renewing the US passport.

I have an American friend who is applying for Spanish citizenship. So, I'll report on what happens with her case.

As for taxes, Bush is an official "friend to Spain" , but NOT to us ex-pats. He proposed eliminating the 80,000 $ per year tax exemption for us and I don't know yet if it was passed into the new law or not. Does anyone know this?

Bye for now! :lo:

Hi there

this is a response to Rebrites who asks about the relative merits of marrying in differrent places. We are both UK citizens and we wanted to get married in Spain, initially the only problem seemed to be the six to nine months worth of form-filling/interviews/waiting in line you have to do.......then we delved a bit deeper.

Marriages in Spain involve the couple deciding in advance which sort of financial arrangements they will make for the duration of the marriage, this can also affect the outcome of a financial settlement made in the event of a divorce (although not if there are children innvolved when the interests of the children are considered first).

The real problem for us was that one of could be held legally liable for the business finances of the other, ie if my beloved had a moment of madness and bankrupted his company MY salary, posessions, share of the house would become available to the trustee in bankruptcy. so unlike the UK the notion of limiting risk on a personal basis doesn't necessarily apply. As we in fact own our own company, registered under English law and limited by shares we didn't want to get involved in two sets of legal problems should something go wrong.

Although this may look like something that only affects business owners you need to think about all the possible ramifications of what might happen if something does go wrong.

In the end we drove down to Gibraltar and got married under English law with a 24 hour notice, quick, painless and the only downside is that you're in Gibraltar !! All you need are your passports, birth certificates about a hundred quid and copies of your decree absolutes if either of you are divorced.

Fiona

Val-
Unless the Am giving up the nationality goes to the embassy- no the embassy is not automatically furnished the info. There is no legal obligation of Spain to tell the Embassy. As far as renewing the passport- its none of the embassys business if you are even there legally or not- so no, they can't deny you a renewal of your passport. As an american abroad you have to have it- if you're a resident there they have to renew it!

Still working on the tax issue- but its insane that the US is trying to dip into extra money that way. Apparently they don't want anyone to leave the US! I mean really- unless you're company sends you there from the US (or anywhere for that matter) they shouldn't be taxing you on that. Now if you have a home in the US that's different- simply said I'm sorry, but its so stupid! Bush and his great plans!

Espe, I was hoping you were considering working on finding Spaniards for all of us!!!!!

I was under the impression that a person could only legally have one passport at a time. That if you opted to have a Spanish passport you had to surrender your American one. Is that not right?

mmmmmmmm interesting... starting a type of foreign exchange dating service... hey, instead of a job I'll just start a business! That's an idea! ;P Let's see should I do video tapes, or surveys? I could screen people (I'm a pretty good judge of character) and then set up people to 'spy' on eachother from a distance who I think are compatible and if they see what they like- a formal meeting! Toni- you could have something there! Offices in NY and Madrid! :jeje:

Seriously though, yes and no to your passport question. It is a bit confusing but let's see if I can simplify. When you are born you have certain rights. When you're born to parents that come from different countries or you yourself were born in a different country- depending on the laws of the countries- you could very well be entitiled to nationality of more than one place. According to the countries in question you can very well LEGALLY hold more than one passport and yes, its perfectly legal. Now, DUAL citizenship means that both of those countries recognize each other as per and usually gives the dual citizen certain priviledges (no they still don't make you untouchable- you would be held responsible for any laws you break while in the respective country and wouldn't be able to go crying to the other to get out of it!)- or should we say added benefits (ie: you hold an EU and and American passport- need I say more!?) There really is a fine line between holding both passports legally and being a Dual citizen. What it boils down to is if the two countries recognize your citizenship with the other- an agreement nothing more between the two countries. That's it. So really, you are a 'dual' citizen when you hold both passports (again those aquired legally- usually by birthright or by naturalization) but those of us who hold both passports may not have their nationality recognized as a citizen of the other country. Let's use Jer for an example.

He holds a british passport and an american one. He legally has the right to have both according to scottish law because he was born there, and also because his father was an american (the US automatically give citizenship through the father- born in or outside of the US)so that makes Jer an american by birth. The US only sees him as an Am citizen and Britain sees him as one of theirs. That simple.

Now, OPTING for another nationality.. that's a little bit different. This is done by choice- not because its your birthright. For this- yes you will be asked to renounce citizenship from your home country to take on the new. Do you really loose it- well in this case: if you're BORN an American- you can never really LOSE it! However, as a naturalized citizen, you COULD lose your citizenship of that country (in this case Spain). And this is because its an option- not something your born with the right to. So, let's use Jer again. Say he decides to ask for spanish nationality after qualifying- which unless he marries Ena- is 10 years (he would have 2 to go) although he would have to oficially renounce his AM citizenship to Spain- he won't lose it. He will gain Spanish citizenship- and yes, should he do something against it (like say he moves to China and decides to become chinese) he WOULD lose the spanish citizenship.

Now, due to the various interpretations of the laws and burocratic crap that one often has to deal with- there are more cases than not that in order for someone to gain their birthright- you would have to go through the motions as if you were OPTING for the nationality- but in these cases again, since its a birthright you couldn't lose it- you only have to jump through the hoops to get the paperwork done. Funny thing about this scenerio is that children born to an American parent or born in the US and have the right to another nationality and assuming that their parents did the proper paperwork to begin with- these children have the right (and are recognized) by the US and whichever other gov't it is as Dual citizens but must opt between one nationality or the other when they turn 18. Which is pretty silly since now it defaults to the whole birthright issue and once you've been using both passports- you just keep on renewing them. I know many people who were/are in this situation.

Its technical vs theoretical. Theorectically its not permitted- but technically- is can be and is done. But again, as I said in a previous post its not something you go shouting from the rooftops! Best thing to do, is be honest about it. Now if you've got something to hide... And yes, if this is what someone is contemplating doing, even with all of the loopholes and if or buts, one does need to think it over seriously as at anytime these laws can change (and do- I've been around the catch 22 through 3 different changes already) and it is possible that if you're an Amercian or from anywhere else for that matter and are contemplating naturalizing in another country that you be ready and willing to give up the other citizenship- birthright or not!