Hi Rebrites,

I'd have to guess that the American mom got tired of speaking to the kids all the time in English?! My son, age 9, speaks perfect American English with no accent... I must admit that it's getting harder and harder as he now often slips into Spanish (didn't used to) and answers me in Spanish. However, so far I remain firm and refuse to EVER speak to him in Spanish (even if easier).

I know two American moms with "bid kids" (6-10 years) who don't speak English very well. Both say they only speak to the kids in English "sometimes" and often speak to them in Spanish. One is also in Barcelona: kids speak to each other in perfect Catalan, speak English to Mom, Italian to Dad (he's Italian) and speak Spanish. They are well adjusted kids, so can't ask for more, even if their English isn't as perfect as it should be!!!

Any one with tips on moving a bilingual but practically illiterate kid forward with his English, I'd love to hear from you! I'm thinking about a British Council intensive course this summer...if I can get him in as must be a nightmare...

Val

Hey Chica, I didnt even realize that you were pregnant. Congratulations! This may seem like overkill but what Javi and I are planning to do with Ethan (he´s 6 months old now) is send him to a German school when he is a bit older. I figure he gets English and Spanish at home now, might as well throw in something else.

But like others have said in previous post, I have seen MANY native English speakers here with children who don´t speak fluent English. I think being consistent is key and not letting the children respond in spanish just because it is easier.

Once again a big congratulations Chica. Please let me know if I can help in anyway. I love talking about babies now that I am a new mom.

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JandJbooksandCoffee
J and J Books and Coffee
C/Espiritu Santo, 47
Metro Noviciado

Although my babies have grown up now, I did have the same problem as you Val, with my son. When we arrived in Lanzarote he was just 8 and had only recently learned to read. Although his spoken English progressed normally, his English reading and writing went way behind when he started in the spanish school system. The only thing I could find to do was pay for private lessons. He had these lessons twice a week for the next 8 Years!!!! I was very lucky to find a qualified English teacher who took him through the UK curriculum up to GCSE level in both language and literature, and whilst he was never going to be the best, he can certainly hold his own, and is now at university in England.

On the subject of accents with bilingual children, some may remember meeting my friend Sandy. She has two young children and always speaks to them in English, regardless of whether they speak to her in English or spanish. They are now 3 and 5 and both are "accentless". The five year old now speaks to his mum in English, although the three year old still mixes both languages together.

As Sandy says, the five year old speaks better spanish than she does, which is yet another reason for her to continue speaking to them in English

Hi Jamie --

Thanks for the congratulations. Actually, I don't think your plans of sending your son to the German school is overkill. I think that when they are young is the best time to expose them to other languages. I was chatting with jer the other week about the issue (I suppose he and his new wife are in the baby making process ). My husband's and my thoughts are to hire either a Mandarin Chinese speaking or Russian speaking nanny when the need arises to give our future little one additional language exposure.

Jamie, do you have your son in any bilingual or English speaking play group? I know you guys do story time at J & J, perhaps you know of other activities.

One of these days I promise to get back to your store. But you know what it's like owning a business! I do often refer my students to your place, though.

Post a picture of your little guy!

Thanks for the tips Madsue! I don't think I can do what you did for the time being, as Sam has a tremendous amount of work! Quite shocking for me! He has school from 9:30-5:00 and 1-2 hours of homework per day. Also, since 4th grade started in September, he has 2-3 tests every week. He is often up until 10:30 or 11:00 studying and he's only 9.

So, he has judo on M, W, F (been going since age 4 and doesn't want to stop) and only goes on M and F, so he can study on Wednesdays. He has a French teacher on Thursdays at home for one hour, but if he's got a test on Fridays they review for the test and skip the French! He also does Tennis and Theatre but at lunch time and some Saturdays...already overload!

We will see...

As for if the third language is "too much"... I think you new moms should let your child guide you. I know two English speaking couples in Madrid who have had kids with major problems learning Spanish and English simultaneously. One couple are both English but the learning of English became traumatic for their daughter. She had to go to a psycologic who advised not forcing her. So, they speak to her in English and she answers in Spanish and goes to Spanish school. Another friend has a daughter who became bilingual with no problem. The son, however, did not even talk at age 5 (or just barely). They have stuck with Spanish and English (he goes to English school) and he is finally doing much better, although they were seriously worried.

Thus, if the child picks it up with no prob...go ahead. If he/she suffers and/or struggles with two languages...wait until she/he is ready before piling on more...that's my advice...

Looking forward to hearing more,

Val

Yes Val, I must admit looking back Dan had way too much work to do!!! He was also learning French and German at school, having extra Maths lessons once a week, along with football training and amateur dramatics!!!! His schoolday ran from 8.00 till 2.00, and there were often days when he kicked back at me!!!

With hindsight, I think I did push too hard, though I thought my reasons valid at the time He has got onto a BA Honours degree course purely on the strength of his spanish education history, plus interview, though I am sure his English lessons will now become a help to him!!!

On the subject of introducing very small children to even more languages I am not sure how much they can benefit, unless it is to be a continual process. A friends child was brought up in the Netherlands, and although he does speak Dutch, he says it is only on the level of a 7 year old, the age he was when he left. He is losing it now through lack of use.

Up to the time my son was three we had a Filipina nanny for the children who always spoke to them in Tagalog. They understood her very well, and both remember her still after all these years, but remember nothing of the language.

Reading through this again, I realise we have gone waaaaaay off the original title of this topic My last comment is that I think my children have benefitted from being exposed to different languages (and cultures in some cases) during their life so far. They are certainly not fazed when being met by an unfamiliar language and do tend to try to make themselves understood!

That of course could just be because they are madsue's children

It's cool (and a bit scary) to hear what's coming down the line. Val and Sue--it sounds like you have both been really disciplined. madsue--congrats on your son getting into that program--you must be proud!

On the English front, I think Christian and I have it easy, because we are both Anglophones, so we can make our home a strictly English environment (though we break out into Spanglish more than we should, probably) and school and the rest of the world is entirely Spanish.

For Spanish we have less of a grip and just have to have trust, Oscar's teachers say he speaks better than quite a few of the native Spanish speakers and he understands everything. But he's really, really verbal (a chatterbox; he never stops talking).

I think a lot of parents give up on following the bilingual path if their kids start falling behind other kids. I'm sure that is a scary feeling, so it's probably good to think through how you could handle this if it happened. And, I think the way to deal with them answering you in Spanish instead of English is to ignore it and keep doing your thing. This eventually works for just about any obnoxious behavior...

I'm a little concerned about Oscar learning to read. I read to him in both languages, but I don't quite understand how small kids learn to read two different languages. It seems as if it would complicate matters, since it's a matter of applying two completely sets of rules. And Spanish definitely has the advantage here, since is a much easier language to read given that you can learn it phonetically.

About a third language... At age four, I think Oscar is ready to add another language. He has actually requested it--repeatedly. But I am not quite ready for it. We read some books in French and I teach him vocabulary, but I really want things to solidify a bit more (due to my own limitations more than his).

Jamie--I can't believe Ethan is six months old. I met you briefly at the writing group--well, I guess it was seven months ago now! Hope we get to meet him sometime soon...

Chica--I think we'll all wish we knew Chinese very, very soon.

P.S. Interesting that only moms have contributed....

This dialogue is great! I don't think it has gotten off topic as it is about having babies (and young children?!) in Spain. And that is a very broad topic.

I am very fascinated by this discussion of bilingualism as it is something of a concern for us. With Ángel dominating Spanish and I the English...my concern is the child not keeping up with the English. Ideally we envision summers in the States when the child is older, or maybe even Russia if my sister and husband are still living there.

I have been reading the book "The Bilingual Family" by E. Harding-Esch and P. Riley and have reached the conclusion that every family is different (sounds like what I have been reading about pregnancies...every pregnancy is different!).

No, but really, this discussion from experienced moms is really really helpful and enlightening. Thanks for sharing!

Mariposita, like you, I am a bit alarmed about what is coming down the road!

hey ladies, future dad popping in here (no, nothing official yet, just a glimmer in my eye ).

third language: forget german, forget russian, GO WITH CHINESE!!! (mandarin) it is the language of the future!!! (if not the present).

saludos,
jer...

Thanks mariposita yes I am proud of Dan, though a little bemused as to how he managed to "walk" straight into University without any of the required examinations or equivalents!!! I have my doubts as to whether he will cope with a four year degree course, but I hope he will have fun at uni and make some lasting friendships.

Regarding reading, as I said earlier Dan had only just started to read when he arrived in Lanzarote, so maybe that is why he found it just as "easy" to read in Spanish or English? I have no idea really, but my daughter who was then 13 never enjoyed reading a novel in Spanish. Maybe it is something to do with learning both simultaneously? Even now if Dan comes across a word in English he hasn´t met before he will automatically pronounce it in spanish!!! His latest was how do you say Cajun in English!!! Apparently he embarrassed himself in a restaurant the other day!!!

Well, I am not a mother, but have some experience from expat English friends who grew up in Spain, and from the children of my friends now.
I guess the most important thing is to attend to the childs English writing, as this is usually overlooked. I have many friends here who were born 'British' but grew up in Spain, and while they speak fluently, their English writing ability is somewhat lacking.
Also, I agree that distinguishing between languages is important. My 33 year old English friend who has lived here since he was 2 yrs old recently said that he didn't really distinguish between Spanish and English until he was at least 10 years old...
I also only speak to my best friends son in English, even though he talks to me in a mixture of English/Spanish and Italian (from his Dad). It is sometimes hard, but I believe fundamental for him to distinguish between languages, and ultimately progress quicker.
At the end of the day, I am not yet a mum, so can only speak through my experiences of others....but hope this helps.

Hello
Chica , this is great info.. where did you get the book ¨The Bilingual Family¨ , here in Madrid?? Thanks

Look at Jer thinking of having a little Jerito.

Chica asked about any play groups. We haven't gone to anything yet because for the first 6 months of his life we barely left the house. I breastfeed and do attachment style parenting so that means, e is always with me. Until he started solids a few weeks ago, I was feeding him every 2 hours during the day and every 3 at night. So that made playgroups and even walking outside the house difficult.

But I have heard good thing about King George's playgroup. They have a baby group and a toddlers group, so I have heard.

Also the American Women's Club has a play group and then there is Sticky Fingers Playgroup.

Once again Congratulations Chica. I am so happy for you.

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J and J Books and Coffee- the best place to find your books in english
C/Espiritu Santo, 47
Metro Noviciado

Hi Sheila --

Yes, I got the book here in Madrid at Booksellers. It was on the pricey side of 22€ for the slim volume that it is. Maybe Jamie has a used copy of it at her store. There is also a translated version in Spanish available. I got the English version since they were sold out of the Spanish version at the time and I was too impatient to wait for them to order it. I would have much preferred the Spanish version.

But now at least I can pass the English version along to my sister when she is ready for it! Then again, with speaking 5 languages, she could be a case study in and of herself!

hey Jamie, feel free to post if you have a used copy at J&J

saludos,
jer...