thanks for a Great resource. you've provided an amazing amount of valuable information, and i'm awaiting the opportunity to see and experience what i've read about!

a question-i do tech consulting(functional and project management) of software implementations. i am interested in living and working in spain (having read Bas' posts, i realize this might be a Sisifian task!)

ideally, i would like a job with a multinational, or a company with regular projects in spain and was wondering if this was even commonly done. i was looking at Altran and Soluziona--what might be some of the better resources for finding companies/contacts? finally, are there placement companies for foreign nationals?

fluent english and i speak/read/write spanish, as well as other european languages, but i am not an EU passport holder.

thanks, maya

Yes!!!

There are two roads to go and work in Spain. One is to do what i suggested and the other for a company from a country you work for work on the papers and believe me there are lot�s of opportunity in Spain.

As long as you are not choosey at the start you can make your way up the ladder later on. The thing is get into the system first.

bas

You can bet on it. A “Sisyphean task”. If you have entered legally then doors will open and they open wide babes! The opportunities might not be as great at first but believe me as you “proceed” it becomes better and better. Remember that you have to be in the “system” and if you are then I do not see any reason at all why you can’t find a good paying job at least for Spain’s standards.

Here’s an example. I arrived in Madrid October 1, 2001 and since then I had 3 interviews and one more coming up next week. 3 interviews and 3 job offer. Two of these are part-time teaching jobs and the other a multinational at that as a salesman. But again this is a pretty good start don’t you think? It even becomes better since you have made yourself more marketable and as I said, “You are in the System”. How’s that? These might not be good paying jobs, but believe me you’re on your way to a better one. I think you will agree with me! Right? Of course! In 2 months time I scaled the walls to better things. That’s pretty good don’t you think? Legal at that. However, if you’re here to party then you can also forget about it and most of all if you are choosy. You won’t get anywhere at all and will purely be frustrated. So if you are already complaining from the start then that’s a pity because you will never enjoy “glorious Madrid” Quoted from my buddy!

Jer, buddy! I’m sorry I haven’t made that call to you, but believe me I will and we should be meeting each other soon. I’ve given your site to some new friends I met lately. They have been asking me about something, which they felt might be very helpful. They need your assistance and I very well know that you’ll give them that my friend. Incidentally they also want to advertise. They should be getting in touch with you through your site. If you do remember even before I set foot in Spain I have always consulted you for things. So! Maya when are you taking that “plunge”?

The Sisyphean task might be moving endlessly a rock in an uphill, but believe me endless it is not and the rewards are pretty much on what I have said. The sure way is always the best way. Slow as it may seem but in lieu of the new law of “extranjeria” which was passed last January things have become a little rough. Follow the process I suggested and you’re on your way to “glorious Madrid”.

Incidentally, I hate to rain in everyone’s parade, but if you came in as a tourist last October and decided to stay and became illegal you could have availed of the pardon they gave to a lot of illegal. Again, a lot has been shipped out too because of reasons I really do not know. I didn’t do that when I came, but instead did it the legal way by getting the job offer first and did the paper works from the country of origin through the Embassy. The whole process takes 6 to 7 months. I’ve heard lately that it takes a little bit more. There you have it in a silver platter. I owe this to people who have shared their experiences in this thread and in others too. When I achieve my goals I’ll write them back and thank them once again for all the information they have shared. I’m just cascading information based on shared information by very nice individuals and my very own. I wish I have related them thoroughly to others who would truly love to live in Spain.

If you currently work for a multinational in the country of origin and are being assigned in Spain it would be the most ideal thing. It is a transfer to Spain. The same process will always apply though because the multinationals always follow the legal way. There is no difference after all. The application process will apply the same way and believe me if you really look at it that’s pretty fast. 7 months isn’t that long. Try doing so in some other country and it’ll even take more time.

Here’s good news and very good news indeed. Sometime in August Mr. Pique of the Ministry of the Interior has suggested that they should come up with a new immigration policy just like Canada is doing and lately Germany. So if you have heard of the points system then score yourself. The point system is what Canada has been doing after the brain drain they had a couple of years back. What is this system all about? Well, this system is to get the best brains in the world. Again! Saying is one thing but implementing it is the other. As long as there is no legislation then everyone is stuck with the same process. The solution is to filibuster.

I’ve said more than enough and I wish you and everyone out there all the luck.

Hey BAS, yes indeedy, you have come a loooooong way and seem to be doing great ! You really deserv it though, you were soooo patient in doing it all the legal way and now it is paying off for you. Congrats on your new jobs buddy! I feel a bit like a proud father since we have been talking about your arrival in Spain for such a long time now. You were very determined to get here through legal channels and you stuck it out. Kudos .

Yours is a great example for others to follow but the problem is that most outside the European Union (Americans mostly) are not serious enough about making the move over to Spain and do not have the patience to do the paperwork required nor wait the months that they have to. They want instant gratification and that is not possible in most cases.

You are soooo right when you say that at first you need to be willing to do whatever it takes regarding employment and then more doors will open as you spend time here and make connections. Unfortunately, many who want to live here want to jump into that perfect cushy job that pays loads of cash and has that great work schedule. People must realize that out of every 1,000 ex-pats who come here, maybe 1 or 2 get a sweet deal like that (god bless them for their luck).

So BAS and all interested in moving on over, I hope that BAS's great posts on relocating to and working in Spain do not fall on blind eyes for he knows exactly of what he writes.

Keep up the AMAZING work BAS, you are an asset to multimadrid and your posts are too --->

Don't worry about not having called yet, no hurry, whenever you have time. As for your friends possibly wanting to advertise, thank you, thank you, thank you! I appreciate any sponsors I can get and will certainly assits them the best I can when I hear from them.

Saludos,
jer...

p.d. "The true test of a Spain lover is what he/she is willing to do to get set up here"

Jer!!

Hello buddy!! The person who is an asset is you my friend. The reason is your site. I don�t think people realize how important a site like yours can be a jewel. Mind me a jewel! The tons of information written is really worthwhile since it provides a cushion for folks needing assistance and if they take time and more time to dig deeper it is in a way a form of public service. This is what people need to have in an area and you deserve that my friend. I hope my share of information little as it maybe be a help for others who truly want to live in Madrid.

Thanks and i�ll make that call soon.

BAS

Aww gee, thanks BAS

That's the goal, to build the best, most visual and most informative Madrid website online and with message board members like you, we are well on our way .

Now if I could only get the cheapooooooo town hall ("Ayuntamiento") to give me grant money for doing their job it would be very --> . Talk about a �Sisyphean task�, that would be like pushing Mt. St. Helens up the K2.

Saludos,
jer...

p.d. Hey, it just occured to me, if every one of my visitors wrote a letter to the Madrid Town Hall, maybe they would fund my project

Hi Bas, Hi Jer! First of all, I would like to congratulate both of you- Bas for your very inspiring posts and Jer for this wonderful website. I am so glad I found it! It gives me hope and courage.
I have been contemplating on making the move too, but, unlike you guys who seem perfectly settled already, I don't know where to begin.
Was it jer who said that the true test of a Spain lover is what he/she is willing to do to get there. That is so true! I am planning to take the plunge around february next year. I've been working on my Spanish and its getting (slightly) better.
I have to admit I am a little scared since I have no friends there. OK, maybe 2 acquaintances who stay there but I have already lost touch with them. So I'm glad I found some people I can ask about relocating. So for my first question. Is it hard to find employment legally in Madrid? I'm not that picky as long as it does not involve cleaning Actually, I'm planning to take a course, whatever course, but of course that's just my way of justifying the trip. But if its not that difficult to find work, then maybe I could delay my MBA since this is quite expensive.
My second question: Is it safe to go alone if you're female? Should I worry about this?
That's all for now. Please, please, reply. Thanks! Looking forward to hearing from you guys or anyone for that matter

Hasta luego!

lizzie, congrats on taking the plunge and moving! it sounds like you are flexible and open enough that you should be able to create a lot of great experiences.

in response to your post, i can't speak for spain in particular, but I did live a couple years in costa rica and ecuador, and travelled extensively through south america, brazil, mexico, india and europe. i would chance to say that it's not necessarily 'safety' that may be the primary concern as much as issues with being a woman in an unknown place.

the same concerns of personal safety that one should have in any major city, such as walking alone through parks, unlit alleys and certain streets after dark, being cautious of getting in a taxi alone at night, and being aware of one's surroundings probably apply. i would assume that there are areas of madrid which are less safe than others to live and work in, Jer and Bas can probably elaborate more?

the way you may walk, the brands or style in which you dress, or merely because you are female, may cause you to receive more attention than you are used to, depending on where you are from. 'Attention' can include catcalls, stares and whistles; i've also been spanked and pinched. While uncomfortable and frustrating sometimes, in the end, it's not inherently 'dangerous'.

in terms of being mugged, i think again, it's as likely to happen there as in any city. it's also important to keep the perspective that it's *just* money (or jewelry, etc) they are after, and a mugger is not usually looking to harm you in any way. a good friend of mine (male) who had grown up in costa rica, once told me he had never felt as scared as he did in the united states, where there may be random violence associated with robbery.

i traveled for the most part alone, and really didn't have any problems with the exception of having a watch cut off my wrist in Lima, Peru one morning (but again, even though he cleanly cut the strap with a razor, he didn't even nick my wrist and didn't bother to touch my carelessly slung purse with its i.d. and money).

so how stay safe? watching other women to learn what kind of behavior is 'normal' was a good way to stay safe. do they carry a purse when they go out, (they may not, depending on where they are going). if they do, how do they hold it as they walk through the market, or how they distribute money in a wallet, a stocking and a pocket, keeping the coins for a bus separated from the paper bills for groceries. it was also realizing that just by the fact that i was a FOREIGN woman, i attracted more attention than normal. one needs to take extra steps to be cautious--maybe it was alright for an brazilian woman to open her purse and hand a beggar money on the streets of sao paulo, but that may be the LAST THING i would want to do.

it's also always knowing where you are. I was very fortunate because speaking the language, I could ask for directions, read street signs, and direct a taxi driver with ease (and, at times, authority). the places in which i couldn't do this, like in india, it was much harder and i would always study a map very carefully, orient myself and make a mental 'plan' before i left the cafe, my house, etc. so that i could look like i knew where i was going.

personally (and this IS because i am american and have grown up in relatively safe areas) the most difficult thing has always been realizing that in latin countries, i had less 'freedom' and i needed to change my behavior accordingly. From my american perspective, it seemed that women in latin countries were less likely go out and do things alone. in the States, i will go hiking and backpacking, jogging, to hotels, to bars, and wandering through the city at night alone. in other places, this is not only NOT the norm, but doing it sets you apart, making you more likely to get Attention, hassled, or in some areas even mugged.

take care, good luck!

Thanks for the tip Maya! Like you, I'm looking to move to Spain so I'm gathering as much info as I can and any little tip or suggestion would be of great help in my planning. Thanks again! Good luck to you too

Hey lizzie, wow! You certainly have a great resource in BAS and maya

maya's advice about safety is all very poignant and her common sense seems to prevail (as it should for anyone) no matter where she goes.

Indeed, as maya stated and like any other city in the world, there are areas of Madrid that are safer than others but in general, it is a very safe city as far as violent crime goes.

lizzie, you will hear and read stories on theweb from many different people who's experiences have varied from excellent to horrible but I beg you not to take any of them too seriously.

For example, I recently heard a tourist here complain that someone had "mugged" him in the PUERTA DEL SOL. I was interested to see what would happen so I waited around nearby him and is traveling party. A police officer soon appeared due to the "victim's" shouts for help and when he (he spoke a bit of Spanish) explained the "mugging", I could not help but chuckle (not due to his bad luck but more to his lack of common sense). What had happened was that he had been eating at McDonalds on the corner of Sol and the Calle Mayor (a popular place for both tourists and Spaniards alike) and he had left his wallet on the food tray and got up with the rest of his friends and exited the restaurant. He then (not sure how much time had passed) realized he did not have his wallet and started to pannic and yell for help. Needless to say that the wallet was no longer on the tray when he returned to the table to look for it.

So, COMMON SENSE should always prevail.

In the case of this traveller, the "mugging" was an OVERSTATEMENT to say the least.

I usually tell travellers that their are a lot of pickpockets in the touristy areas but muggings and violent crime is not something they should be excessively worried about if they use common sense.

I do have a safety forum at www.multimadrid.com/cgi-bin/jersbbucgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=7 in which the "women alone in Spain" subject has been discussed beofore", have a look.

On a side note, I have lived here in Madrid for over 6 years and have travelled to every one of the 17 autonomous communities of Spain and the worst that has happened to me (so far ) is that once in the Madrid metro I got my leg felt up by a thief looking for an ankle wallet. He used the old trick where they fake dropping something at your feet as the Metro car doors open and you enter (in this case it was a pack of cigarettes) and then when they go to pick it up, they grope your leg looking for a hidden wallet or money pouch. It is only fair to add that I was carrying my monster traveling backpack since I was off for one of my trips.

Saludos,
jer...

Lizzie

Hello! This is BAS plus some words of encouragement. Follow the steps i suggested in the post regarding how to get to Spain. That is the ultimate objective. In other words get a job offer first even as a maid. Why do i say this babes? Because no one and no one wants to be one. Therefore the chances of your application being approved by the ministry of labor here is high. Once that�s approved your on your way.

Forget about i�m this and i�m that or i have this and i have that qualification worst of all except �doing this�. Follow first the process. When you arrive in Spain you go to the police and submit your papers then you are told to go back and pay some fees which is normal really. When you are given a NIE - Numero de Identidad de Extranjero then you�re on your way. Remember you have a permiso de trabajo por �cuenta ajena�. Then when you have all this you are on your way to a better job.

Please take note that it takes 5 months to have the approval now. Can you imagine it only took 2 months last January. You could Be here in 9 to 11 months legally.

Do not worry if you do not have friends. Always remember that if you plan things out you stick with it or in short follow the plan. Always remember that once you are here there is no i don�t like this or no i don�t like that. Most of all enemy number one is if you are here to party!

So Plan, plan and plan. Short term and long term, transition period and settlement period.

Nothing can go wrong. When things don�t seem to work out always call on Jer because i know and i am sure you can be sure that he will always help you out. I�m around too. Jer has been here for a long time so he should have more knowledge really and i know he does. I consulted him a lot before i came and his �inputs� became a part of my plan.

Regards,

BAS

Hey BAS and friends.

BAS, I love your outlook on things buddy , one can tell just from your posts that you are a true Spain lover.

I am so sick of reading posts on other message boards from people talking about wanting to move to Spain but "on their own terms" and then complaining about not ever making it here

They are indeed entitled to their opinion but in 99% of the cases that is not realistic.

Sure, I guess I could have gotten a job with a multinational in the U.S.A. and put in 20 years before I was able to transfer to Madrid but I did not want to wait 20 years or more to make my dream come true So, I left my job in the U.S. and came here, was an English teacher for about a year (hated it but did it to make ends meet) and got my foot inthe door, made contacts, found a job I love, launched multimadrid (my passion) and then even more doors opened up.

I have indeed been here for a while (about 7 years) but I feel it only fair to mention that I was born in Scotland (was 2 months old when I went to NY so I do not remember a thing) so I am a EU citizen and that makes a world of difference in being legal here. My father was in the U.S. Navy and was stationed in Scotland when I was born and his 2 year stint there was just about up. SO, I did get lucky but did not realize I was entitled to British Citizenship until after I came to live here. So, I have both A Europena Community (British) and an American passport but I have also been in the position of just being an American here in Madrid so I can relate to the "struggle".

That's why I love your "start at the bottom if you have to" mentality.

Saludos,
jer...

p.d. Yes, I am here to help anyone in any way possible.

Hello! Thank you both for your quick and very informative replies. I appreciate the fact that you tell it like it is and not make it sound romantic and easy. It is important for people like me who want to make the move to know what exactly is involved in doing so and the kind of sacrifices that need to be made. At the end of the day, if its truly your dream, you'll make it happen.

For Bas- No partying? at all? Don't you think some partying in moderation is ok? After all, this is part of Spain's allure- the nightlife- right?

Hey lizzie, cheer up kiddoooooooo! I think (and hope ) that BAS was referring to those who come ONLY to party and therefore fail misserably in their attempt at any permanent settlement here.

Of cours, Spain would not be Espa�a without the nightlife, partying, fiestas and general merryment that made it famous .

Saludos,
jer...

p.d. after all... 60,000,000 tourists per year can't be wrong.

Lizzie!

Yes! No partying! I understand that �all work and no play makes a dull boy�. If you have to start on something then you can always use this medium initially. This is the party.

You can only enjoy once you achieve your goals. If you include partying then i feel you will fall in a trap. You see that is precisely the problem because you will enjoy it soooo much that you will tend to relax since what will call your attention will be the party.

Very serious fella really! Remember going out and partying cost money so i would much spend my money in the right places and focus on looking for a better job.

You see i might sound a nerd like individual but that�s exactly the point. Go around Madrid when you want to or when you have the free time, but always make the priorities first and partying is the last thing in my List. Focus on the job search first then reap the rewards later babes!!

Regards,

BAS