Hello, everyone. I hate to start a post apologetically, but I don't want to make any enemies before I make any friends; all I'll say is that after reading the posts of the last two months I'm somewhat confused, particularly with the amount and content of BAS's postings. After I finished reading I have no idea how long he's been in Spain or if he has a job, legally or illegally.

I came upon this board because I am looking for a job in Spain. I am computer systems engineer with an MBA and dual-citizenship (US/Mexican), completely fluent in both English and Spanish. My girlfriend and I moved to Madrid in January, she started a PhD program and after scouting the most-sought-for work skills (IT, English, experience, MBAs...) I thought it would be easy landing a job. I had originally given myslef a 3-month timeframe to get something. Well, I ended up staying for 8, and although I had 2, 3 and sometimes even 4 interviews a week, in the end, no company thought I was worth waiting the 4 (minimum but unlikely) months required to get the permit. Of course, it always takes more. I heard of a few people whose papers were "in progress" for up to 9 months. The only 2 people I met in those 8 months who got the papers on their own had to put in TWO YEARS to get it.

I don't mean to whine or discourage people. I'm just sharing what happenned with me. I was more than willing to wait a whole year if necessary to get a permit; the companies are the ones who can't wait so long, and I don't blame them.

My recommendation is to either secure a job with a Spanish company before coming (if that's the route you want to follow), or find a position in an American company that can transfer you, which is what I'm on right now, but it doesn't seem much easier. If anyone has any tips, I would really appreciate them, as I do have to say I loved the city and would give anything to be able to go back and work/live there for 2 or 3 years.

Jesse

Hello Jesse!

Yes! To answer your question. I have been living in Spain since August 14 to be exact of 2001. Your second question is: If i had a job? Please check the threads i have been writing and you will see I am employed.

Remember a Spanish based company will not hire you if you are not �legal� in Spain so in short before i came to Spain i had a job offer and did all the paper works and it took months that is the reason i have a work permit and a NIE. Read the threads my friend and you will not get confuse. You see i worked on this first before i started looking for the �real� job. If you come to Spain with out it you can forget about it not unless you wait. Get a job offer in writing if you come as a tourist and work on the papers. This takes time but that�s the whole story. That is also why your friends where able to do it but they waited. The end result is that they are in Spain.

Jesse you must be a very qualified individual having 4 interviews a week. How did you do that? Yet! i don�t understand why company�s interviewing you would not hire you really? If you are qualified then you should have gotten a job offer in writing? Strange really! But again we go down to the truth and it is always the legality in living in Spain.

I always say this. Do the reverse don�t be choosy and then work your way. Oh! i found out you have to earn your stars too my friend with a Spanish base company. So if you have this and have that to them you�re just jesse and another number in the list.
I could be wrong here but that seems to be my impression. But if you are a native teacher then it is another story. Jesse if you truly want to come back now is the time to do it because the opportunities down the road will open-up wide especially with your qualifications.

I hope i was able to clear out something here.

BAS

Hi Jesse, jer here.

Welcome aboard the forums and not to worry, we appreciate your honesty here and nobody will ever hold that against you, no matter how depressing a post may be

As BAS says, he did it right and although it took time he made it in the end. Your qualifications seem to be impressive so I do not think you would have trouble finding a nice job once you become legal.

Your fluency in Spanihs and bilingualism is a HUGE plus, so many people run into the linguistic barrier here and it makes life very difficult, from finding a job and an apt. to everyday life, you will have an advantage. I am also bilingual and I feel so at home here in Madrid and sometimes have trouble distinguishing Spanish from English, they are both so common to me I studied very hard all my life to reach this level of fluency in Spanish and it has paid off BIGTIME.

On the negative side, neither of your citizenships are good for living here legally

BAS strikes again Heed his words for they are wise ones. Thanks BAS, I do not know what I would do without your first hand quality advice on these threads, a big for you once more.

Jesse, if there is any way I can help you out (short of hiring you myself, multimadrid is a one man job for now ), do not hesitate to ask and I will do what I can. I totally feel for you in your quest ot move here.

Saludos,
jer...

Hi there,

I suppose this post is directed more to JER and BAS than to Jesse, but it is open to ANYONE to submit suggestions

I studied 5 mos. in Sevilla during undergrad (in 98) and was a Spanish major. I now work in marketing for a wireless internet company and will have been there for a year and a half when I quit in June. I will be attending Middlebury's school in Madrid beginning in August to and will graduate after a year with my masters in Spanish. I hope to be very accomplished in the language by then--I speak it fairly well now, but by then I will feel completely comfortable to offer myself as bilingual to future employers.

I would like to stay in Madrid after I graduate and work. I would love to get into the publishing industry or another marketing/pr job, but I will consider anything that I find challenging. I LOVE Spain, and really want to stay for a while.

Can someone please tell me what the main obstacles as far as legal status go will be for me after I'm no longer on a student visa? What will I need to do to legally stay there? How hard will it be for me to find a job?

Comments, please??

Regarding citizenships which would qualify someone to live in Spain....

Those who have a citizenship from former colonies of Spain (I don't know if legally, Mexico qualifies), can get into Spain much more easily than other non-EU members

Furthermore you only need two years of residency to become a Spanish citizen!

Regarding work, the best way (legally) is still to get an offer before going to Spain.

But, sometimes, regardless of all the qualifications you have, the company doesn't find you to be a good "fit". This sounds illogical but that's the way it is sometimes.

But my friends, there are many ways to avoid bureaucracy...certainly some loopholes for sure. They exist in Italy, and I'm sure they exist in Spain too.

Those of you who really want to work in Spain, your best bet is to get to know a lawyer who knows Spanish laws. They can be your best friend....this sounds insane but sometimes lawyers can really be good people

quote:

originally posted by j4heels:
[qb]Hi there,

Can someone please tell me what the main obstacles as far as legal status go will be for me after I'm no longer on a student visa? What will I need to do to legally stay there? How hard will it be for me to find a job?

Comments, please?? [/qb]

As we have mentioned before in other posts, a student visa does not guarantee that you will obtain a work visa

They are two completely separate things. Once your student visa runs out, by law you will have to return to your home country.

As for what you will need to do to legally stay there, you'll need a residence visa....I won't go into detail about this because it is a complicated procedure and there are many different kinds of residence visas.

It is certainly not impossible, but it will take time, effort, and patience. I've just finished writing an expat's book on living in Spain, stay tuned to find out details where you can obtain this.

The main obstacles for you are the ridiculous laws written by politicians to make it exceedingly difficult for foreigners to find legal work.

To their defence, however, I can understand (and also condone) laws which keep the best work for its own people. If I was Spanish then I too would certainly want the best jobs to go first to my own people!

As for how difficult it will be for you to find a job....theoretically, if you're a hard worker there should always be work for you in Spain (this is also true in most countries).

All of these terms people use..."recession", "slow economy", etc....might have some truth to it but the fact remains that if you want to WORK, you will have opportunities. The problem is when people feel that a certain job is below them ("oh, I have an MBA from Harvard...there is no way that I will work in a restaurant!")

Like BAS always says...do not be choosy! There is work if you really want it....and if you want get off of your high horse (I'm not saying this to you, just to people in general)

Legal work, on the other hand....is another issue. In Spain and other such countries (especially Italy) it is more about the people you know.

I would confidently say that probably less than 1/10 of the good jobs in Spain are advertised.

We continue hearing this in our lives, but the saying "it is about who you know, not what you know" becomes very important right now.

When you are there as a student....get to know as many people as possible....important people....friendly people....people who work at the consulate in Madrid....lawyers....gestors....

It is about WHO you know. Especially in mediterranean countries, where people can pull certain strings or look the other way....

Sigh...if only Spain were a lawless country like some other countries, how easy life could be for us...ehh...exiles

Hello 4jheels,

It is not only an offer of work here that is important. I have to correct someone, but also getting that approved in the "Ministerio de trabajo" which is another.

4jheels go ahead man! work on it read all the thread here and you will make cross roads.

Regards,

BAS

Thanks so much for the instruction, you all!

I guess my main question now is this: Can I look for a job in Spain after my study program ends? Or do I have to go home? and... If I do get a job offer in writing, do I have to go home to the states to process it, or can I send the papers to be processed from Spain?

Basically, I want to know if I will have to ship back to the states or not after the program is over. I really don't want to do this and lose the place I will be living as well as pay for the move. I have family in the Netherlands (not EU citizens, mind you). Could I go there for a month or so and then come back to spain as a 3 month tourist while papers process??

Thanks!
Jamie

If you want to stay there with a formal, legal job, do intensive job-seeking while you're there with your student visa (start as soon as you get there, I would say), as the paperwork to get your "serious" work permit and residence visa takes painfully long (at the least, a few months, but it could stretch all the way to a couple of years). In theory, you can only stay in Spain as a tourist up to 90 days within a 6-month timeframe, but I don't know if this applies when you've already been there for a few months with a student visa. If you do land a proper job offer, you will eventually have to make at least one short trip back to your home country, as it is there where the your final visa is handed to you, and your passport must have an entry date posterior to your visa date. (I hope I'm being clear on all this).

I understand that if you have a student visa you can legally work up to 20 hours a week in certain jobs (not "professional" ones). Maybe you can keep studying indefinitely, work a few hours a week bartending or whatever and give some English classes on the side, for which you can expect at least 10 dollars an hour.

Avoid as much as you can waiting until you finish your degree to start looking for a job; while I was in Spain I would at least get a couple of calls a week for job interviews, but since I left I barely get my emails answered (albeit, I am applying to a lot less jobs).

Hope this helps,

Jesse

This is good an excellent thread, since I am reading personal stories, rather than something from a book.

I am just going to go to Spain and do it and let the chips fall where they may. Stay upbeat and when one door closes, another opens. Everyone who wants to move to Spain must keep the faith.

KEEP YOU EYES ON THE PRIZE, LET YOUR HEART BE YOUR GUIDE AND YOUR BACK TO THE WIND.

Shawn

4jheels,

Look at the thread regarding work and residency and chances are you will find the answer.

Regards,

BAS

Hey everyone, been away for a few days but just wanted to say thanks for keeping the board strong in my absence

4jheels, all the advice is good here but I wanted to emphasize whatJesse has said about looking for work from day 1.

I did the same exact Masters program at Middlebury as you are about to begin and OI think the school has a silly "rule" (or at least they had one years back) about not working during the program but just ignore it, get on that job hunt ASAP if you are serious about living here.

Also, you will need to go back to the U.S.A. to process that job offer if you get it, as BAS and Endrigo have mentioned in many a post on this board, it is annoying but inevitable.

Saludos,
jer...