Just how low are wages here. My impression from asking around was that they were lower than Northern Europe but still reasonable. My impression (mistaken as it turns out to be) was that an Admin assistant (secretary) would earn around 20.000 a year and someone with a degree and several years experience would earn around 30.000 a year, quite low but still livable. turns out I was way off. I've been corresponding with a TTer (someone from toytowngermany.com) who is considering a move from Germany to Spain and wanted to know cost of living etc. Well turns out I was way off on the salaries. He was offered a position as a general ledger accountant position with Daimler Chrysler in Madrid for the grand salary of 20.000 a year. That is less than half of what he made in Germany. Work the numbers out and you find that I earn more in the hand as a teacher than an experienced graduate would!

I would have expected a wage that low to be some two bit minor Spanish firm, not a major multinational.

any thoughts? I also told him that there is no way one could live on that salary, that's why the Spanish live at home to till their 30s.

rob

the wages here are pathetic--barely livable. and this for skilled, educated workers. the one workers making decent salaries are those in the upper echelons, vps, gms, and people in investment banking. i also understand that if you are hired for a foriegn firm in the foriegn company to work here, then salaries are higher.

my bf is looking for a new job now. he is a manager at a major website, but the salaries being offered everywhere else are 12-15 per year. and this for 8 years experience and a degree!

however, it doesn't seem to bother the government at all. they are too busy slinging mud at each other and calling each other names to actually work to make life better for the average spaniard.

there is also a whole class of people called ...uh...the name escapes...mileurista??? it means someone who makes just 1000 per month. that there is a name for this condition is a further example of just how far it is spread.

i don't know enough about the laws of economics to understand the implications, but what will happen if the market is continually plumped up with highly educated Spaniards who not only can't make a living wage but also can't afford a home (bought or rental) thanks to the real estate situation. could brain drain be a result??

though i'd love to get a salaried position, freelance english teaching, despite its uncertainties is actually more lucrative.

uh...now i'm depressed!

Oooh there's actually a name for people like me then The average wage here on Lanzarote is 6€ an hour, or roughly 1000€ per month. Like people have said, bearly liveable. In an idealistic way, I kind of like the fact that no matter what someone does, everyone is paid the same!! Obviously there are exceptions, but in general, most people realise they are in the same boat, and here at least, just accept it. Maybe that is the problem?

Yup, same story here. After making 70-80k in the US, Roland was offered 18-23k for multimedia web design jobs here in Spain. We´re talking Flash/Director/database expertise, 15 years experience, not entry level jobs.

He took one for a while and we liked the security, but have also decided to go freelance because it has more potential to be decently paid. Even some of the freelance jobs he got were quite low-paid, while others were perfectly reasonable.

you got it right Candy, they are called mileuristas.

every now and again i see a report on the news about the average salary in spain and lately they insist that it is 1,500 euros a month but there are a LOT of people making less than 1,000.

Rob, when i left my teaching position in ny, i was making 3 times what i made here when i arrived. only after 10 years of finding my way and re-inventing myself am i making what i would in the u.s.a.

i have said it before and will say it again, to get ahead here you need to do your own thing, whether it be teching freelance or starting your own business(es). working for a foreign co. here is also a good gig since the pay (as Chris will surely agree) is a LOT higher.

this is why i said on another thread that it is a good idea for at least one of you (Chris?) to have a steady job and for her to stay within siemens if at all possible.

you also have to realize that the VAST majorit of the ex-pats here cannot have the salaries they made at home AND the lifestyle that spain offers.

often one has to make a trade-off and just "accept it" as madsue said.

saludos,
jer...

GCSE maths reminds me that there are three ways of working out averages - mean, median and mode. Most people talk about the mean when they refer to averages, but a few people earning 100,000s will skew the figures. I think the mode (most common actual wage) will indeed be about 1000€ and the median (the middle number in a series) is probably about that too. But economists boasting about the Spanish wage are bound to use the mean as it pushes averages up.

This mileurista thing sounds to me a specifically Madrid (and Barcelona?) thing. Here in Salamanca, many people would be very pleased with 1000€. A graduate will be content with 700€ a month.

The lifestyle 1000€ can afford you is interesting. Holidays abroad are almost out of the question, but you can eat out a couple of times a week on that sort of money, whereas someone in a similar job in the UK, though they are earning a lot more (perhaps double), will be lucky if they can eat out once a month

Damian

Let's look at this another way. If you have a room that's 300 a month and you are bring home anywhere from 1,000 - 1,500, you can call that a good salary if you don't have many expenses.

For example, I met someone who lives in Chueca and is paying 500 a month, for a tiny ass studio, much smaller than mine, but he brings home 1,500 after taxes. He's single, doesn't car and doesn't pay that much in gastos (expenses), so he is doing very well for himself in Madrid.

In the end, I think it's all realtive. Yes, having a fixed salary does afford you the luxury of budgeting, but you also have to keep your expenses down. So, the example that I just gave you above is one of how some people, not all, can say that they have a good salary. But, let's take the same person above. He wants to own a piso and know that with his current salary, it's impossible to do that, unless mom and dad chip in with the down payment.

As far as freelance goes, it does pay, many times, much better than working for someone else. You control the price and don't have to think about whether or not you get the short end of the stick. I like freelance. You set your own hours and we all know that word of mouth can be the best way of advertising.

Shawn

OK I'm more than a little shocked at how low wages are. In general I knew from asking around that service industry jobs (pumping gas, construction, store clerks etc) paid around 1000 to 1200 a month, but what I'm surprised at is professional wages are just as low. The oft quoted number is 70% of northern Europe but I think it's closer to 45-50 percent.

Funny thing is that causal view you wouldn't think the wages were so low, most cars are new, restaurants and stores are busy, people are buying houses taking holidays etc.

Rob

correction, you make pretty good money as a teacher but only 9 months a year, didn't take that into account on my first post (ie earn 20.000 a year)

The wife and I decided to come back to the UK to earn some decent money to buy a place later in Spain. With our combined wages in Spain we were struggling to save anything. Here we can stick around 1500€ in the bank a monthy. We still fly to Madrid every 2 months for long weekends, buying tobacco to sell in the UK to pay for our flights and a couple of meals out in Madrid.

I don't think it is as relative as much now the € has come into play. In the UK i'm earning 35€ an hour doing a doddle of a job. I don't really like living here but its a means to an end. I can't see how the above normal man/woman on the street can get out of this in Spain. Even going freelance you are slammed with the equivalent of NI contributions. Being self employed in the UK is around 12€ a month in NI, in Spain 10 times or more than that. The logic?

There have been numerous opinion polls which show that large numbers of Spaniards are interested in emigrating due to the lack of job opportunities.

You can't really compare the UK and Spain contributions to the "NI", normske. After all, here in Spain I only have to make contributions for 15 years to get my pension, whereas in UK I would have had to contribute for 45 years The sums from your examples above say it all!

In fact I think making comparisons between countries doesn't actually help!!! I would be classed as rich if I went to somewhere like India, I am average here in Lanzarote, and poor if I go to UK.

The important thing for me is the quality of my life, and I am infinitely richer living here

quote:

The important thing for me is the quality of my life, and I am infinitely richer living here

Thank you, madsue. You took the words right out of my mouth. I am more about the quality of living and I can live in Madrid with less.

After being back in the US for 4 months now, I can see how good I had it in Madrid, although I did at the time I was there. It's only been more validated now.

All in all, I look forward to visiting Madrid in July and reconnecting with the known and where my heart leads me.

Shawn

Very interesting any eye opening thread.

My personal story is that I have been very lucky since arriving here. My partners parents have been very good to us. (Paying for food and letting us stay rent free)

When I arrived I spoke no Spanish, so I knew that getting anything other than bar work was going to be impossible.

I decided to try and find a way of working from home instead....

I literally was online 10-16 hours per day 7 days per week, and it took me 18 months to learn about and decide what I was going to do to make good money online.

Working online is something that I would recommend highly. If you can put up with staring at a screen all day then it can be fun.

The main advantage I also have is that I don't need a car. So working from home saves me a lot of money each year on travel expenses.

I now make around 80,000€ which I believe in dollars would be classed as a 6 figure salary. I have bought my own house and swimming pool and am really liking life here.

So in summary, don't rule out the possibility of working online for a living. There is good money to be made on the net, even just an hour per day can start to show rewards after a few months.

PS: If I had to get a proper job here in Madrid I would be straight back to the UK. I know that is not what you may want to hear, but I value my time too much to work all month for 1000€

Take care.

Dean

quote:

I know that is not what you may want to hear, but I value my time too much to work all month for 1000€

Dean,

You said it in a nutshell and what you said shows what drives people in life. Some people want to earn a lot of money and that's fine. There are others, like myself, who aren't really into the making a lot of money aspect and just want to live a good quality life, without the latest gadgets and a big, fancy home. If people want materials things in life, I am not against it.

As long as my needs are met, and I can go out every once in a while and travel and save and have enriching experiences with my boyfriend, family and friends, then my time spent on this earth has been worth it.

Shawn

I think it's very hard for most people to make a living here, at least from what everyone I talk to is saying. I know of some people who take in 600€ a month even. True, if you pay a 300€ rent and earn 1000€ a month, that is not a bad living, but I don't know anyone paying that low of a rent. Really, rent or house payments should never exceed 30% a month. I have a friend in Barcelona who earns 1000€ and pays 550€ a month in rent. I honestly don't know how she survives.

My husband and I are fortunate because we also work online and almost all of our business comes from the U.S. and the UK. We don't have family or credit cards/loans helping us out, so if it wasn't for being able to work this way, we'd be screwed, I'm sure.