gotcha deano but you still have to compare a big city to a big city and real estate in london (in general) is still much more expensive of that in madrid.

Rob...

quote:

The main point is it's not fun living here is each and every month is a struggle becuase your earing too little money.

that is right for some people. each person must make the decision on whether the quality of life here is worht the struggles they are up against. that decision will lead them to either stay or go "home".

quote:

Speaking of London and the cost of living it has'nt keep hundreds of thousands of east europaians from flooding into the city for work. I know wages are low here but I couldn't imanage living in London on what most of them would be making.

yes but, like madrid, many of them end up living 10 (or more) to a flat in marginal neighborhoods. here in spain they were just pressured into passing a law against more than 4 people not of the same family from living in a 2 bedroom apt. i believe it was 4 max. to a 2 bedroom, would have ot look it up and check to be sure. this is a measure against the practice of "hot beds" which is when say 16 people will live in a 2 bedroom flat. each room has say 4 beds in it (2 sets of bunkbeds) and each bed is occupied by 2 people in shifts. that is, 12 hours it belongs to one person and the other 12 it belongs to the other. if rent on the apt is 1,200 euros a month and 16 people "live" there, the rent is 75 euros a month each.

many work such long shifts that by the time they get home, they just want to flop into bed and the bed is "hot" since the last person just left it to go to work.

YES, this IS real life whethet one wants to believe it or not. it happens in neighborhoods with above average immigration and studies show that latin americans and eastern europeans are 2 of the groups that most use this "system".

landlords do not care since the buildings tend to be slummy and they are glad to get their rent money every month. usually getting more than the market rental value for a run-down flat.

saludos,
jer...

quote:

The main point is it's not fun living here is each and every month is a struggle becuase your earing too little money.

Oh, I heartily disagree. We've been so much happier here we gladly put up with the struggle for years, until we found a way to make ends meet.

Of course, our concerns about making the rent each month are nothing. We have always been downright wealthy in comparison to the situations above - 10 to an apartment, etc. We have no concept of true (or even false) poverty.

And I agree with Jer that this is a very personal thing and everyone does not feel that way or want to live this way.

Juliette and Jer,

You two took the words right out of my mouth. Yes, when I was in Madrid there were many months that I didn't make it to the end of the month, but I was happy with my lifestyle. I am a person who doesn't need the latest technology or a big home with a swimming pool. I just want to live a simple life and I am not against people who want those things at all.

For example, what Jer and Juliette have, they have worked for. I am not envious of anyone because I have learned to take care of what I have and to cherish it, for I know that my situation won't always be this way. There were many months were all I had to eat for dinner was bread and tomate frito, but I survived and thanked God that I had something to eat.

All in all, would I go back and do it again? Of course, because I have learned so much in the lesson of what I went through that has made me a much stronger person in the sense that I can truly determine my WANTS versus my NEEDS. Not everyone has a desire to own a home, to have the latest cell phone, computer gadgets or whatever. Everyone in life is simply different and that's what makes the world beautiful and life interesting.

"Have a big expensive car
Drag furs on the ground
Have a maid that I can tell
To bring me anything
Everyone will look at me
With envy and with greed
I'll revel in their attentions
And mountains
O mountains o things

. . .

I won't die lonely
I'll have it all prearranged
A grave that's deep and wirde
Enough for me and all
My mountains o things"

Mountains O Things
Tracy Chapman

Shawn

I have occasionally commented to the wife that there is always someone who has it worse than us, but never makes me feel any better In America the income divide is between the middle class and rich here in Spain it seems to be between those who bought years ago and those who are trying to buy now. Most people I've talked too bought their houses many years ago before the run up in prices so they have much smaller mortgages, or if renters have been there for many years and have very cheap rent. Those that are buying now either take huge mortgage payments or buy in a cheaper location and take a 50 year mortgage.

One thing I haven’t seen here or anywhere else in Europe (not sure about UK) are thrift shops. Every city in America/Canada has one and it's a rite of passage for young families to shop there. Not only because the kids out grow the closes so fast but most parents can afford new clothes for themselves much less the kids. But I've never seen one here or in Germany which surprises me. Maybe most of them buy at the china shops around, some clothes are within the price range of a Thrift shop.

Yes, thrift shops are a lot less popular here but they are out there. I have a friend who sells a lot of her ¨unwanted¨ (used and new) clothes through one of them.

A question for Dean: as a property owner here in Spain I hope you would be in the know of how much the property taxes are here. Would it depend on the location of the property?

Rob, please do a SEARCH on "thrift shops" and post there, otherwise this thread is going to get WAY off topic

there are a few threads on thrift shops already on the forums.

saludos,
jer...

Ola, do you mean the annual IBI paid on each property? If so, that will depend upon where you live, the value of the property etc etc. Where I live the basura is included in my IBI payment, but in the town IBI and basura are paid separately.

quote:

IBI

for those of you new to that, it stands for "impuesto sobre bienes inmuebles" (real estate tax).

this is indeed the "property tax" here.

some real estate is exempt from this tax such as my apt. here in the plaza mayor as the building is a historical one and has no ibi.

so, if it were mine, i would have to pay no property taxes.

the ibi is generally VERY low here, especially compared to insane property taxes in the u.s.a.

i think the ibi here is on average a few hundred euros per year.

saludos,
jer...

Madsue and Jer - thank you for answering my question. Thats exactly what I wanted to know since hopefully I will be buying soon.

Ola - I think the max is around 0.1%

I only can base this on my property, but our house has been valued at 700k (E) and we pay 600 euros per year.

I don't know the exact % or rules, but I would say that about 400 per year is the norm.

I pay 93€ per year for a 5 bed, 3 bath old finca on 1700 square metres, if that helps!!! Which it obviously doesn't!!!! It will depend on the locality basically.

You guys are scaring me. I am hoping to move to Madrid sometime after September of this year (I'm a non-EU person), and planning on starting off (trying to) earn a living teaching business english and legal english. But I was hoping just to do for this 6 months to one year, with the hope of finding a business (a regular job might be hard to come by since I would not have working papers) to be in. I want the "Spain lifestyle", but I also want to make a couple of bucks too - I'm old enough where I would have to be concerned about saving money and having enough for retirement since I wouldn't qualify for a pension, benefits, etc. being a non-EU person). I was really hoping to be able to make about 40,000 euros teaching business/legal english and then find a business where I could make 80,000 to 6-figure euros annually - am I crazy to think this is possible?! Is anyone else out there able to achieve this, and if so, how? I really need to know because this could alter my plans. I don't mean to sound mercenary - I am used to working hard and I am willing to continue to do so, but I want a commensurate reward. I will appreciate your advice. Thanks.

Hi renee There are others on the board far more able to answer your question than me, as I live in the canaries. But I find it hard to believe that a basic job will pay over 3,000€ per month in Madrid, to start off with.

How much research have you done so far?

renee77,

We aren't trying to scare you at all, but we do want people to be realistic. I had a private student (Spaniard) who earned more than 100,00 100,000 Euros a year, and hated his job. It can be done, but without papers, very difficult. Do you have any special skills that make you stand out?

I can tell you know now that English teaching is shaky at best and I don't know, personally of any English teacher making 40,000 Euros a year, unless they also own the academy. English teaching doesn't pay that well compared to other jobs. You will have to make a name for yourself and get out there and hit the pavement.

Other English teachers can come in and give you their impressions because I did OK as an English teacher and it was nothing to write home about. I gaind gained valuable experience so that when I return this time, I know where I can go and earn more money with the experience that I have.

Let's see what others have to say about this.

Shawn

Tut, tut, Shawn, your spelling has certainly deteriorated since you left here Or should I say, your use of the spellcheck