Dear Jer and all other experiencers, thinkers and helpers,

My boyfriend and I came to Spain three weeks ago, now staying in Madrid to a) learn Spanish and b)find out about possibilities to live here.
I am German, artist painter and would like to continue in art while still being able to earn some money with a own business. For the moment I am busy with going to galleries, trying to find out which gallery could possibly be interested in my work. From one of the gallerists I learned that people here are very conservative and more interested in Spanish artists than in foreigners. I guess that is true as the Spaniards seem to be very conservative in all kinds of things. Of course I want to try it anyway. Can I find experiences of artists out here/there? -
How about foreigners opening a shop, f.e. food that cannot be found here? Is it very difficult to be accepted or are younger people actually longing for non spanish stuff? What would be needed terribly? -
Does anybody have experience with getting a loan?
We have some money but seeing the prices of rents,
real estate or simply comida, it is not going to be enough for anything. -
This is probably all too long - thank you for your great website, Jer.

Annette

Hi Annette, young Spaniards are not really conservative but the older ones (and the ones that generally could afford to purchase fine art) are.

Preference of Spanish art by Spaniards also has to do with national pride, Spainhas produced some of the worlds greatest painters. Sorry you are not getting a warmer feeling from the galeries.

quote:

How about foreigners opening a shop, f.e. food that cannot be found here?

If it is American food you have in mind, it has already been done, see the following 2 threads:

� Where is 'A Taste of America'???

� An alternative to 'Taste of America'

... but I suppose if you wanted to you could compete with them, tough market though.

Maybe a better idea would be a food shop that carried all types of food that one has trouble finding here (from many different nations) but that would be a huge undertaking financially

One thing I miss as a New Yorker here is a good NY bagel I have always said that whoever sets up a real good NY bagel shop in central Madrid will become a millionair

I love your entrepreneurial spirit!!!

Hope to read of your progress on this board.

Saludos & Suerte,
jer...

Dear Jer,

thank you for giving your quick response and a new idea worth while checking out.

Actually I did not have in mind to open a American food shop but more something your are suggesting second, an international shop.

Being in love with Italian and Asian food and having trouble finding the most elementary spices and herbs and other ingredients needed for this kind of kitchen, I was thinking more about that. I must admit that I recently met one tea, one oil, one Italien, one wine (Spanish) shop and all more or less in the same street (Campoamor or Pelayo) and therefore feel sort of incouraged, but in the same time vertiginous because of all that money needed.

It might be nice and helpful and interesting if there would be people who are thinking in a similar direction. I am also thinking in a Hostal-Hotel direction.

Hasta pronto, Annette

Hi Annette,

Have you checked out the "circulo de bellas artes" on Calle Alcala? My son takes art classes there. They have shows in the galleries, studio space, classes, etc., maybe you could make some good contacts there.

My Mom is an artist and she found it when she was here visiting.

Good luck!

Great idea Val

Annette, you may also want to try the many cultural centers around Madrid.

I like the international food stuffs shop idea a lot. The only thing I can think of like that already existing is the "Tienda del Gourmet" in some of the Corte Ingl�s dept. stores (the one on Calle Preciados in Puerta del Sol has one for example). One problem with an international foods store would be that there would be so much to carry that you would need a lot of retail space which, as you have said, is EXTREMELY expensive.

Maybe you couod start off by simply getting a storehouse and setting up your shop online as most of the expats who live in Madrid are pretty internet savvy. You could see how it goes with very little overhead and then decide if it is lucrative enough to rent or buy a store front.

I like your idea for a partner who may be looking to do the same thing, hope you find one here on my board

Saludos,
jer...

This thread is interesting, particularly since Chico and I were talking about ethnic foods just last night. Annette, I am American and my husband is Spanish (just to give you some background). My husband thinks that most Spaniards would buy ethnic foods as a "capricho" but not a daily need.

In my very humble opinion, you should think long and hard about who your target market for an international food store would be, where you would locate it, and how you would advertise it. As you have found, Spain is a relatively conservative country, and much more homogenous than countries such as yours or mine.

Jer has lamented that he cannot find a good NY bagel. I like to cook a variety of ethnic foods, particularly Asian, but have been challenged in consistently finding what I want/need (e.g. ginger root, egg roll wrappers, soy sauce, patis, egg noodles, sweet peas, bok choy, etc.). I have found myself wandering into neighborhoods that have a larger concentration of the immigrant population and shopping in the small stores there.

The other day I was driving down a street in Madrid (for the life of me I can�t remember the name) and noticed a German bookstore as well as a German food store and German restaurant. I am supposing there must be some Germans working or living around there!

If you are looking for an Asian food market, there is a fairly decent one in the underground access to the parking lot of the Plaza de Espa�a.

OK, I am rambling. Sorry. I just get excited when someone mentions ethnic foods. Sometimes I really miss the diversity of my hometown.

Good luck with your business plans and keep us posted!

From reading the last couple of responses it seems that an on-line set-up might be your best bet. You would still need an immense amount of research as to what products would see (% of foreign countries respresented in your marketing area plus their age and income level, etc. as thats the core sales group) then some estimate of the number of Spanish that would by food on-line + age/income, etc /storage space/life of product/and so forth.

Chica - they actually make dried ginger root - if you can't find fresh ginger let me know and I'll try and track down the dried version. You just stick it in water for a bit - sort of like the dried fancy mushrooms and stuff.

Hi Puna, glad you agree with my idea for Annette to start with an online store. Due to the low overhead and pretty speculative/experimental adventure of an international food goods shop, it is the best way to start.

Your recommendations for Annette to do her homework and market research are great!

quote:

...then some estimate of the number of Spanish that would by food on-line

I am afraid this is going to be nill or next to nill. Anette should limit here initial marketing to the many ex-pat publications, websites, etc... here, they will keep her in business.

No way she can even come close to counting on the sales to Spaniards in order to pay her bills Annette, if you do this, shoot for the ex-pats and most of all Americans whoi tend to have more open minds about tasting varied foods. Any possible sales to the Spanish should be looked at as extra income at best.

Hey, a guy here in Spain set up a web site (online store) at www.britbuys.com quite a while ago and it is still going as far as I know. His idea is to specialize in providing the U.K. expats with their foods. Ok, here comes the obvious easy joke... "if he can sell that aweful English food online here, you can sell ANY type of food" Jejejejeje, just thought I would mention him as a bit of a (nut)case study The BritBuys website is pretty horrid but it gets the job done. They should however put photos of the products on the site, their sales would go up...up...up!

I think the biggest logistical problem here is deciding what to carry from the veritable sea of ethnic foods and finding the providers for importing the goods.

I love this brainstorming!

Saludos,
jer...

Hey jer,

Just looked at the BritBuys site!!! All I can say is .... wow!! We have an English Cash and Carry here which sells the same type of products at half those prices, and they are still way, way too expensive (for me anyway!)

Annette, go for it and good luck!!!

Hi,
Just thought i would add my comments on this thread, I am the owner of www.britbuys.com which has been mentioned previously in this thread. I set up this site two and a half years ago and to cut a long story short i am no better off finacially then when i started. There are many points to be taken into consideration about online shopping, not least the legal requirements, getting people to find you and trust you, payment problems etc etc.
As Jer has commented my site is not the prettiest in the world but it is functional which is what i wanted my shop to be, every photo i add will slow the shop down which could loose me potential customers and most of my cutomers will know what the products are.
Regarding Madsues comments yes are prices are more expensive than a cash and carry which i presume sells in bulk and where i beleive iva is only 2% (my apologies if i am mistaken). If you go into corte ingles you will find my prices are cheaper then their limited range.
We are not perfect but we are offering a service which is appreciated by a large number of Expat Brits in Spain.
Thanks Robert.
(P.S: Our Xmas section will be open very shortly)

Hey Robert, thanks for dropping in. I had almost forgotten that you joined the board a while back.

Sorry if my "horrid" comment was strong, I just feel that even though your target market (Brits ) know what the products are by name, it would be better to add photos as sales would surely go up and you might even get orders from people not from the U.K.

You can have small, compressed .jpg (or .gif)images and not slow the site down much at all. If done right, it would be a great improvement. I did go back anbd notice that some of the products have pics, good stuff! As an American, I do not know what the products look like and there are a LOT of Americans in Spain.

If you spice the look of your website it does not necessarily have to slow it down and it WILL improve business.

As I write this I am sitting here with an English friend of mine who has come to lunch. When I mentioned this thread to him and that you had stated "...most of my customers will know what the products are", he responded "we do?"

Please do not take this the wrong way, i am only trying to help as someone who is VERY in touch with the web world and reaching expats.

I am sure you will agree that a shopping site on the web should be visually pleasing, you know what they say... eye candy

I have always told people of your site since, aside from its functionality, it is providing many expats with a good service.

I wish you luck in the holiday season and for years to come, hope things pick up.

As for your statement...

quote:

There are many points to be taken into consideration about online shopping, not least the legal requirements, getting people to find you and trust you, payment problems etc etc.

Can you elaboratye a bit without giving away any industry secrets? I am sure that Annette is dying to hear more

Saludos,
jer...

Hi,
Thanks for your comments Jer,"Horrid" was maybe a bit strong but hey thats life. As you can see i have added a few photos to my site, and i have customers from Uk, Spain, South Africa, Australia, Sweden, to name a few. Obviuosly the better the site looks the more sales there are, when i set up the site i knew NOTHING about computers or running a buiness here in Spain, the site just developed out of a hole in the market for British Food. Spain being a large country, the hole is like looking for a needle in a haystack which creates its own problems. I have been selling British food in Spain for over six years so i think i have learnt quite a bit about the various aspects of it and it has proven to be very difficult. I am sure the person who started this thread will find out the pros and cons as they go along, First this is Spain where everything takes twice as long to achieve plus some more.
I wish them all the luck in the world in what they try and if they want to contact me they can and i will help in anyway possible.
Thanks Robert

Hi Jer, Val, Chica, Puna, Madsue, and Robert

Thank you so much for your participation, thinking and adding ideas to my questions. It is very helpful to be in contact with you and your different viewpoints and get some more think food to chew on.

It is definitely a good idea to think about a internet shop if I look at the rental or buying costs of a shop - it is complete horror. And of course there are a lot of things to be found out before even thinking about a shop. I am unfortunately of the impatient kind who thinks everything has to come in the same time. Thanks for the great chinese proverb - it is exactly right for me.

Regarding the ginger root, Chica, I bought a huge one in a small beautiful vegetable shop Pla�a de Salesas, calle General Casta�os, Barbara de Braganza - around that area. Unfortunately I don�t have the exact adress here. But the window was nice with an oriental fruit display. I am sure you won�t miss it. Plus I got a big package of basilicum, which I was not able to use entirely for my food - so I cut it a bit and put it in oil - delicious.

Well well well there is a lot to think about and what I definetly don�t want is the kind of enterprise which would challenge my tenacity again in the same way as it is by being an artist. I mean it should not be a poker game again. (Although it cannot be totally excluded, I know.) Madrid is in the same time very in- and discouraging. You walk through the streets and are wondering how some of the shops can possibly survive with the strange things they sell (incouraging) and then you want to buy some rosemary and have to buy it in the Retiro from some gipsies because in the market they have no clue what you are talking about (discouraging).

Bueno, muchas gracias y hasta mas tarde. Tengo que ver un piso a alquiler ahora.