To all interested parties:Need more info?

Visiting a lawyer by friday. Your questions please! Make it brief but precise. You can ride on my time free of charge. Deadline is Wednesday morning Espa�a time.

Regards.

BAS

Wow BAS, now that is a generous offer

Hope my members take advantage of that one, but not too much or you will be there for hours and hours and we all know that nobody wants to spend that much time with a lawyer, a sticky, greasy film will start to form on your skin

Saludos,
jer...

Hi Jer!

That is why there is a deadline buddy! Anything after that i won�t be able to help out so i hope this message board won�t go thru the rafters with questions.

Regards,

BAS

Hello Everyone!


I was hoping that I would have gotten some questions from a few determined ones who wants to live in Spain. Ah! Yes! Good old Spain. Have been to my lawyer and things pretty seem to be on track, however; I was surprise and petrified regarding some very disturbing news for everyone out there that are interested in moving.

It has been confirmed that only if there is a "cupo" will a job offer be approved by the Ministerio de Trabajo. Yup! Sad, but true. Again, I emphasize to everyone out there regarding the "NOT TO BE CHOOSY FACTOR". This is the key to Spain as of the moment. Oh yes! Jer was offering a position for an Au pair. I hope somebody jumped for that position. Funny it might have been, but I would have grabbed it myself if I had nothing to loose. Spain is implementing the law in this particular situation and results are pretty much on track for them simply because of too much immigrants and illegal aliens that have become uncontrollable at this point in time, but then this is an off shoot of the ley de extranjeria that has come into play. I speak of implementing the law here. It is unfair for those immigrants or even illegals who wants to make a go for themselves here but have to pay the price at the expense of others. Sorry if it hurts but that's the truth.

Bad news! To get your papers approved by the Ministerio de Trabajo takes 1 year I am told (Non-EU nationals except those countries that have an agreement with Spain). Again, this confirms a thread I wrote a long time ago regarding a President of a Multinational company here in Spain who was waiting for his papers to be approved and he has been here for 7 months. I wonder if he has his papers in order by now? Please check out that thread. Multinationals have their way to get some expats in Spain and naturally this happens in any other country where there are exemptions to the rule, but within that particular line still following the law legally. On the other hand, you can get the work permit approved in 2 months. How you will do that is READ BETWEEN THE LINES.

Good News though, in today's papers the US in particular was concerned regarding treatment of immigrants in Spain. This is what I have been saying all along;Lobby and Filibuster. More and more Spaniards are agreeing that there must be a system of accepting immigrants to this country no matter where he comes from. Hey ! That's the way to go and I think everyone would agree. The question is: Why the delay? Well, this is Spain and the rules must be what Spaniards say and they themselves have that right. Remember that this country has completely made a big turn around from a very totally poor nation (Two set backs one during the 1900's and 1930's from a super power at that) to a progressive nation and is back on it's feet folks. Spain has come of age my friends at least for us during our lifetime and in a short period of time at that. Ah! Yes again! If you read James Michener's book IBERIA things are a lot better, but remember Spaniards have their way of thinking which is prevalent still just like a micro chip; it is embedded. If you remember the stamps thing that James Michener talked about then you still have that here in play.

I have the same problem with my lawyer who is bull headed who thinks knows everything without trying other alternatives yet ending up on the same question and solution after some time. In other words they get to the results just a bit later when you can reach it earlier. They just don't try new things or options at least to reach a given task at an earlier time because it has to be their way or the way they think. That's it! But again this is Spain and that's that. It is effective in a way because like I said they have come of age and have recovered fast. So what they do is right too and effective for their system. If you follow what they want implemented you'll reach to your destination their way.

So much for all the things I have said here, but again as I said: This is Spain and the rules are played the way they want it. If you truly want to live in Spain legally it is possible.

Hey Jer! I haven't been drinking to much wine buddy. Remember I don't drink alcohol , but I am a true lover of Spain just like the original you - friend. Yeeepeeee….

Regards,

BAS

BAS,

Thank you so much for the honesty in your information. It's good to know. I like your part of finding legal work in Spain. I am ready for the challenge and trust, I am not picky. I will put my best foot forward, market myself well and take it from there.

It can be done. I just have to be ready for the long haul.

Good luck in all of your endeavors.

Shawn

Redwood,

Sure do. If you need some assistance you know who you can count on.

Regards,

BAS

BAS,

I suggust that you find yourself a new lawyer. Its not a question of who you are - its a question of who your lawyer knows.

Alan,

Thank you for your inputs. I agree with you that it seems to be prevalent here which is what you are trying to say and is self explanatory. I see you are from Madrid, but the point i am trying to say is that my lawyer is doing it right and maybe all lawyers here do the same thing plus of course what you said.

You see i only found out yesterday that Spanish laws are based on the Roman laws except for the slavery thing. It is different for those say like the US or other countries which have the same wavelengths that makes the difference. You see as i understand it and i believe for those who know what i am trying to say is that there are a lot of ways to interpret the law and that�s that. Laws should give you options because there are a lot of situations out there. Each person has his own situation which should be addressed and it is precisely the options that are missing. You see if you have specific answers to your situation you get specific solution and you follow the steps, finish.

It is the "barema" (baremo meaning scale or weight or even balance)situation which is prevalent here that is the problem because no question or problem can be interpreted correctly by ten people similarly and is always interpreted differently. Hence, the delay until it is settled. How i don�t know but that is it, it gets settled.

Regards,

BAS

BAS,

there are ways around everything. Thats what lawyers are there for - just a question of finding the 'good' ones.

When you hear the story of a multinational CEO who waits for months to get his papers, its cos the MN decides that is the best way to go about the issue. You only work the system when its important.

Alan,

Your points are again well taken cared off and i agree, but you are missing the point completely.

Everyone knows what lawyers are supposed to do and it is precisely that, but in this case there is that LINE which is different here and it is very prevalent.

Regards,

BAS

BAS,

is this the point:
"Each person has his own situation which should be addressed and it is precisely the options that are missing. You see if you have specific answers to your situation you get specific solution and you follow the steps, finish."?

Alan,

To quote you: "When you hear the story of a multinational CEO who waits for months to get his papers, its cos the MN decides that is the best way to go about the issue. You only work the system when its important." This is beauracry. This is where you need a good lawyer, but even here for a multinational company at that they must have a battery of lawyers that can�t make his papers move. I am sure they have very good lawyers and they must know some people which you are trying to point out, but is not happening because you have laws and the law does not make one better than the other just because they know someone.

On the other hand to make it simple, if you had options or steps detailed out similar to the US or other countries for that matter then it makes it more easier to follow the steps and not be in the dark. Worst even if you had a lawyer who might claim to know someone to make it (papers or other stuff) move faster or whatever. This is where the danger arises because some people become victims of fraud and con artist.

Each individual has his own unique situation which can be addressed if he/she belongs to a certain option or solution which is "SUPPOSED" to be provided but would be difficult if it is generalized. This is what i have been trying to say because when it is generalized it is a matter of interpretation and this is where you will get ten different answers for a solution, hence the delay.

Regards,

BAS

On the topic of lawyers, I'm surprised how you can say that a certain lawyer cannot make things move "faster" and that the law is equal for everyone.

The first point is debatable...the second is definitely not true. The law is not always equal for everyone. I can give countless examples in Italy (another country like Spain, with a lot of bureaucracy) in which a person arrived from an eastern european country without sufficient money, and when he was questioned by the officials, he repeated the names of people who he knew....let's just say that after that point, he was allowed to enter and was not bothered ever again.

I believe what Alan was trying to say is that it matters more who you know....if you know the right people, you would be surprised at how quickly your visa application was processed....or how quickly you received certain papers....or how well you are treated.

Many people are distressed when they hear the term "bureaucracy" and lose hope. I, on the other hand, look forward to hearing that word, because it just means there are more opportunities to find "loopholes" in the law.

What I am trying to say also is that you should view bureaucracy with positive outlook, because many times it can work in your favour.

The law is written....to be taken advantage of. You have to work the law....in order to do this, you have to know the right people. In order to know the right people....well, this is just public relations. If you're a good "people's" person, eventually you will find that which you seek...

Endrigo,

Read the thread completely and nobody will contest what you are trying to say. It happens to one in a few and that�s it. It doesn�t follow for the majority and you will agree. You are just stressing one example over a million like the example you gave because of something that you yourself heard so i have to disagree with you completely. Tell me if that happens in the US or other organized country and i think only a privelage few gets that type of treatment, maybe in a corrupt country yes it is prevalent.

What i am trying to point out here is how the law is being interpreted for any ordinary lawyer or any Tom, Dick or Harry to do things the right way if it was laid down in writing, you know the steps...Step 1 follow this, step 2 follow this...step 3 follow this. That�s not available here at this time and that�s what i am trying to point out because something printed is not explained in detail and each lawyer or individual for that matter expects an answer which is interpreted by one answer and not by ten different interpretation, hence the delay. (Please take note that this is in processing papers or any other bereaucratic thing. There are conflicts and it becomes a matter of interpretation which is a problem because it causes delays.) Please look at a website written by an individual called Brenda Hall. You will know what i mean after you have read it. Just go to google and look for it.

This is the confusion here and i am trying to point it out which is the same things i gather from everyone else including myself and i am just startled at times with the inconsistency, but like i have said in the other threads i wrote; this is Spain, and that�s the way they want it to be and that�s that because they reach their objectives anyway. "They have come of age" So that�s that.

I am not trying to make a debate here, but that�s my experience here and most of others too in Spain.

So i just totally disagree with you.

Regards,

BAS

Dear BAS,

You are entitled to not agree with me....and I am glad that you share your viewpoints with us

I still stand firm with the belief that these "loopholes" are prevalent and that many, not just a few people, take advantage of them. I myself have taken advantage of such loopholes, and many others on this web site probably have as well (only they are hesitant to admit it).

The law, as you know, can be interpreted in different ways, even in a so-called organised society such as the UK or the USA.

The law can be interpreted differently by different lawyers, regardless of how "clear" it is. This is why lawyers earn good money - because they can subtly manipulate the law for the benefit of their clients.

If you believe that making laws more "clear" or establishing "set" procedures will help alleviate the legal problems and bureaucracy in a country, then you have overlooked the many loopholes possible in "organised" and "civil" societies such as the UK and USA.

The fact is, many people take advantage of the law, and it is certainly possible to do so, by many people, not just a select few individuals.

I too, like you, hope that there could be less interpretation in the laws and that the laws could be more "clear", but I don't think this will ever happen. We just have to make do with what we have available for us. That's half the fun, mate