Hello everybody, I�ve been told that working as an "autonoma" (please someone tell me if I�m spelling that wrongly!) you get more money. I�ve been to a couple of interviews and it seems to me as though if you factor in the 200-odd euros you pay yourself for your social security and the 7% the school deducts for charges (not sure what that bit is, but apparently you can claim it back from the "hacienda", whatever that may be, you�re going to end up earning about 17 euros an hour. My calculation is this: one school has offered me 22 euros an hour- take off 7%, that�s 1.54 off, leaving 20.46, then say you do 15 hours a week for them, then that�s 60 a month, so 60*20.46 is 1227.6, then take off the 200, that leaves 1027 over 60 hour works out at 17.12 euros an hour. That�s not brilliant, it has to be said. The interviewer also said you didn�t pay taxes up to the first 3000 euros, but does that mean you don�t pay them at all, even if you earn, say 10000 in a year, or do you pay on all of it once you�ve gone over a certain threshold? Could someone explain how it work for me in plain English, as my brain is hurting? Is being autonoma a better deal? Cheers, Scooter
Posts: 129 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 28 July 2004
Scooter scooter scooter... is it the short term Euros that you are chasing or future financial independence?
I have been reading The Millionaire Next Door on and off now. It�s a fascinating study about the millionaires in the United States and how they got there. One statistic that the book states is that self-employed people make up less than 20% of the workers in America, but account for two-thirds of the millionaires. That self employed category includes entrepreneurs as well as professionals.
That said, if you are considering going aut�nomo (self-employed tax status), I recommend doing so only if your intention is to continue teaching in Spain as a future ongoing career here. Not that doing so will make you a millionaire. But at least you will have a better chance at being financially independent than working with a laboral contract where you will always be dependent on a third party for employment.
No consulting agency should be discounting what they pay you, no matter what they say. You are the professional, you establish your rates, you invoice the consulting company, you are responsible for deducting the IRPF, which is not necessarily 7%. It ranges from 7-15% depending on how you are registered, and how long you have been registered (IRPF = impuesto sobre la renta de las personas f�sicas). Now, whether or not the consulting agency wants to hire you at the rates you state is entirely up to them.
Look at it this way. When you call the plumber to fix your toilet, do you tell him what you will pay him and then discount the taxes from his bill for him? No. You call several plumbers, decide which one has the best rates for their services, you hire him (her). They do the work they were hired to do and they invoice you. Same as an aut�nomo (self-employed) English teacher.
Being aut�nomo means filing your taxes quarterly. You are also required to be registered with the social security system here in Spain and have to pay into that. Payments run me close to 230� a month. Most places that hire legally registered aut�nomos on the up and up will ask to see your statements from Social Security to show that you are up to date and current with your payments.
A couple of things to keep in mind... it is never as easy as it seems and never believe everything that they tell you.
P.S. Going aut�nomo, until you are established with a solid client base, will probably mean a drop in your income until you have enough income to offset your professional expenses (social security payments, etc). Just an FYI from someone who has "been there, done that". Good luck!
hi scooter, "aut�nomo" for men, "aut�noma" for women.
many lang. schools/consulting agencies prefer that their teachers be "aut�nomos" so that they are not responsable for them as far as the employment situation is concerned. the school/academy does not want to contract the teacher and by the teacher being aut�nomo/a the school saves itself a lot of headaches (social security, sick leave, etc...).
only one thing is sure, by becoming aut�nomo, you will pay more as you have to pay into the social security system every month so my advice is, don't do it unless you are making decent cash.
by the way, the 200+ euros you pay a month does go to you but not as directly as one may think. you are paying into the spanish social security system and that does not come back to you full circle until you are 65 (retirement age) as a pension.
quote:
the 7% the school deducts for charges (not sure what that bit is, but apparently you can claim it back from the "hacienda",...
as Chica said, that 7% is the retention for the irpf and the % depends upon your "ep�grafe" (type of business activity).
teke Chica's advice here, she is the pro on this in the teaching field.
I would say depending how long you want to stay here will be most likely what conditions your choice. If you are planning to stay a year or two, then it is better to go with autonomo (commercial contract). If you are planning to stay here indefinitely then it is better to be "indefinido" (labor contract).
What I mean is, that if you stay long term, you might get to benefit from unemployment and job security inherent to an "indefinido" status employee. Where as if you are only for a short term here you will not benefit from these.
As far as compensation, you also have to take into account a couple of additional things: 1. If you are working under autonomo, you are basically your own company, and hence can expense certain items, such as transport meals. In theory anything that you need to do in order to conduct business is expensable. You just have to be careful at what you expense though or it might raise flags at "Hacienda".
2. You will have to file your own taxes every quarter, and this adds an expense, since you will have to either do it yourself, and use your own time otherwise available for other things, or hire an accounting service to do it for you. This will run you about 100euros a quarter.
3. You will not be eligible any of the benefits that are available to regular employees, obviously unemployment is one. But there are others, "Tickets restaurante" which most employees get today, any additional health insurance your company may be giving their employees. And whatever other perks they might be giving them. Discounted rates at banks, whatever.
4. Negligence, as an autonomo you have no protection against a negligence charge. Where as as an employee, you would have the corporate shield of your own company. I now, law suits here aren't as popular as in the US, but you can still get them. Though as a teacher, I am not sure how much damage you can cause, perhaps if you help your client revise a contract, or some kind of document of contractual nature, you could open your self to be liable.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Posts: 652 | Location: Mostly from Miami, FL. - Born in San Remo, Italy | Registered: 30 April 2004
You lot are fast! Thanks for the quick response, a worryingly large amount of information. I get the distinct impression that it starts to make sense to be aut�nomo (thanks for the spelling tip..) if you�re doing around 100 hours a month, then the hourly average deduction is loads less (sadly, although I�d love to be here for the love of being here and not for the money, my bank manager and landlord have very different views!) Also, I can see my shakey grasp of Spanish being a point in favour of not tangling with the Spanish tax system just yet. I�d be really interested to know what anybody else�s experiences have been too - can anybody recommend any schools where it is a good deal? Many schools seem to be offering this option, and I�m not 100% sure about their motivations, but there�s sure to be some good ones, right?? Thanks once again for all your advice everybody, Scooter
Posts: 129 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 28 July 2004
your post was at 12:39 and the last answer by fabrizio was at 13:38. 3 great answers in under an hour. can't beat that with a stick!
quote:
a worryingly large amount of information
and then some!!!
quote:
I get the distinct impression that it starts to make sense to be aut�nomo if you�re doing around 100 hours a month,...
not sure how much that comes to as a teacher but imo, if you are not making at least 1,500 euros/month, it is not worth throwing 230 into being aut�nomo.
for example, if you are bringing in 1,000 euros/month and are aut�nomo...
- subtract 230�/month for ss. - subtract 300�-400� a month for rent (much more if you live alone) - subtract 35�-50�/month for transportation. - subtract 200�/month for food stuffs. - subtract 100�/month for misc. expenses.
not much left for living it up
quote:
Many schools seem to be offering this option, and I�m not 100% sure about their motivations
read my post above, i pretty much laid it out for you as to why they prefer theri teachers to be aut�nomo.
quote:
...but there�s sure to be some good ones, right??
don't count on it scooter. good for them yes, good for you, NO!
they are looking out for number one, you must realize that.
I finally decided to register myself as autonoma. I thought I´d let you all know how it´s done and how it went.
I signed up as a traductora (translator), which is part of what I do but not all. One reason I did that was because you don´t have to show that you are "licensed" in any way. My degrees are in biology and public health which don´t help me prove I can teach. I believe with teaching English you have to show a TEFL certificate or something else. (Someone correct me if I´m wrong)
It was really easy! Just go to the Ventanilla Unica on c/Ribera del Loira 56, which is near Mar de Cristal. The 104 bus at Mar de Cristal will take you to the door.
There´s a pile of paperwork but you don´t have to fill much of it out and they hold your hand through it all...I spoke to 4 people in under 2 hours and it´s all done. I will be paying 208/month.
Now let´s all hope I make enough to cover that! (insert praying gremlin here)
Ventanilla Unica on c/Ribera del Loira 56, which is near Mar de Cristal.
i believe there is also one at the "cámara de comercio" in the plaza de la independencia (where puerta de alcalá is) which is closer to the center for those of you who need it.
i believe there is also one at the "cámara de comercio" in the plaza de la independencia (where puerta de alcalá is) which is closer to the center for those of you who need it.
Sadly, no, it's been closed and moved. Ya have to trek allll the way out there. Or believe me, I would not have made that trip!
From what I've heard it's not so easy for non-EU folks here on a "cuenta ajena" work visa (you have to deal with the lío of switching the type of work permit to "cuenta propia" first, as I understand).
Do you know how they calculate the social security payment? Seems like it's a slightly different amount for different people...
Posts: 1070 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
It's geared toward web developers, but a lot of it is still applicable (except that they don't have to deal with guiri issues like visas/residency and such).
Posts: 1070 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
Yes, I am EU so it's easier for me. And yes they helped me determine the epigraph. From what Chica says, I guess I could add teaching if I start freelance teaching (I'm on contract at the moment). They were fine with me continuing on contract and as autonoma. And yes, the young 'uns get a discount.
The Ventanilla Unica is where you register a business as well, so it does seem like the two would go hand-in-hand.
- rent or buy a cell phone from me for your stay in spain, more info at 
- already have a cell phone, get a spanish SIM card for it at 
