ok, i need some quick help from all of you legally employed folks out there. i am working with the organization in madrid to go over details on getting the work permit. their lawyers told us some info that i think is totally wrong. they said that the permit is applied for in spain, that it can take up to 8 months, and that must be in the states until it is resolved. WHAT?!?! now, i have been doing my own research with the spanish consulates in the states, and i am pretty certain that 1) i apply here in my home country. 2) i can get all of the documents i need (medical and police certificates, etc.) minus one letter that must come from spain.
it is this letter in particular that i have questions on. the dc consulate page said this about it: "Carta de la Oficina de Extranjería correspondiente dirigida al empresario en españa notificando la resolución favorable a la solicitud de permiso de trabajo y residencia efectuada por el mismo."
the Miami consulate said it was a "resolucion gubernativa que autorice a residir y a trabajar en espana."
the NY consulate said it was a "copy of the residency and work employment authorization issued by the ministry of labor in spain with an N.E.V. number."
i'm getting dizzy... i am sure i just need one letter, but do any of you know about this? what exactly is this letter, how long may it take my employers in spain to get, and what do they need from me to solicit it? i know they need my academic transcrips, which i have already requested, but anything else? and could it be this letter that the lawyer said would take eight months to get?!
i am really hoping i can get this sorted quickly, as i am basically now without a job and a home here in miami. i resigned from my job and have planned to go up to DC mid-may since i agreed with my new boss that i could be there at the begining of june. uff, i don't see how that will happen now...
The Spanish company that is hiring you must set the wheels in motion in Spain. They must give you a formal job offer. The company in question must be in good standing with all of their taxes and social security payments. The administrator of the company must provide their information and the articles of incorporation for the business.
Once all of this is in place, you can get an appointment with the Ministerio to get the process started. Most people use a lawyer for this and it takes a month to get this appointment. You will not have to be there for this appointment, but the administrator from the company that is hiring your will need to go. You will probably need to provide some documentation like a copy of your passport.
If everything is in order after this appointment, then the administrator of the company hiring you will need to list the job with the unemployment agency. They should make the description as specific as possible, so that it is nearly impossible for anyone but you to fulfill the requirements.
During this time, you will need to provide your academic transcripts (get them apostilled and officially translated by a traductor jurado--the Spanish embassy should be able to recommend one in Miami), CV/resume and any other documentation that you might have that will prove that you are the right person for the job.
Then you wait and wait. From what we have been told, someone with an appointment in April may need to wait until October to get an answer. There are plans to shorten this wait time, but I wouldn't count on it.
If it gets approved, it is at this time that you must go back to the US and (or if you are already in the US) apply for the work visa at your local consulate. Once you enter Spain on the work visa, you can apply for your residency.
It seems to me that you could enter Spain on a tourist visa and stay for six months while the situation is resolving itself. After the first 90 days, you have to either leave the Schengen countries and re-enter or apply for an extension to the tourist visa (right?). You would still need to go back to the US to apply for your work visa after it gets approved, but at least you would be in Spain in the meantime.
I would recommend getting the ball rolling as quickly as possible. Have the company request the appointment with the Ministerio. See if the company has lawyers that will help with the process. If not, get your own. Don't count on the Spanish company to know how the system works and to take care of it in a timely manner! Follow up with everyone incessantly.
Believe it or not, getting the job offer is half the battle. And if you are going to live here, you'll have to get used to the crazy bureaucracy. Think of this as a sort of initiation ritual.
Good luck.
P.S. In order to get your transcript apostilled, you will need to have the school notorize it as a true copy. As I remember, there is an office in Miami that can issue apostilles for Florida documents, so you could just go there or send it there. If I'm wrong, then you would need to send it to Tallahassee (assuming your transcript is from a Florida school). If you don't have the apostille on the document, there is a very strong chance that they won't consider it valid or even accept it.
Posts: 1064 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
Hey Mariposita, thanks for the response. Some more questions:
My new company does have an immigration attorney. What exact Ministry must they make the appointment with? After that appointment and while I am "waiting and waiting", I am allowed to leave the States (and be in Spain), right?
What exactly will the Ministry give me? The Consulate in DC has assured me the only thing I need from Spain is a letter from the Oficina de Extranjeria...
I need my transcripts officially translaged by a traductor jurado AND apostilled? (What is appostilled anyway?) Must I do one before the other? One of my transcripts will be from Florida and the other from Virginia. This needs to be done in each state?
Oh my, I am so confused and getting such contradictory information...
Hi binkx-- About the apostille. It is a certificate that makes US documents valid in a foreign country (or vice versa). You get the apostille before you get the document translated, that way they can also translate the apostille. And, yes, you'll need to get one in Virginia and one in Florida.
Talk to the certification offices in both states to find out exactly what the school needs to do to make the documents "apostillable" (I made that word up).
I know in Florida that you'll need to have the school "notarize it as a true copy" because I had this done recently. The school may not know what this means, so you may have to have them call the Apostille office in Tallahassee to have them explain it (I did). It may be a slightly different process in Virginia. I had to have a birth certificate apostilled there and, as I remember, I had to send it to the certification office in Richmond.
The company may tell you that the apostille is not necessary, but I highly recommend that you do so, because any US document without an apostille (Birth Certificate, Marriage Certificate, etc.) will not be accepted. Also, make sure that you specify that the apostille is for Spain, since there are different kinds of apostilles.
About the lawyers:
quote:
My new company does have an immigration attorney.
That's good and will save you a step and money. Maybe they have some connections (enchufes) to get things moving quicker... I think it would be really hard to do this without the help of a lawyer.
quote:
What exact Ministry must they make the appointment with?
The lawyers will know what the procedure is... You should try to talk to the lawyers directly to make sure that what I said applies to your specific case. Since you aren't a legal resident of Spain, there could be a somewhat different procedure. In the case of a resident of Spain (without a work permit), the appointment is, I believe, made with the Oficina de Extranjeros.
quote:
After that appointment and while I am "waiting and waiting", I am allowed to leave the States (and be in Spain), right
Again, check with the lawyers, but I do not think this is the case. Because you cannot enter Spain as anything other than a tourist until you get the work visa pasted into your passport. You could enter as a tourist for three months (and then, I think, request a maximum of a three month extension).
But once your paperwork is processed and approved, you would still have to go back to get the work visa from the US consulate (shouldn't take long--maybe a week or so--provided you have all the paperwork necessary) and enter again.
Maybe someone in your exact situation will chime in... Pretty much all of the people that I know who got a work visa did so via an amnesty or after being here on a student visa, so your case is slightly different.
Posts: 1064 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
hmmm, great info! I rushed last night to order my transcripts, and hopefully they will be OK to get apostilled. then translated. also hopefully my company can begin their process without these...
perhaps you're right on this whole process- i know the letter i need to hand in tothe consulate is from the oficina de extranjeria, which you mentioned. perhaps it really does take up to 8 months to get that letter. then, unfortunately, after i make my application in dc it will be 1-6 months for the visa, not one week like you thought...
i guess i can make multiple trips back home, my family would certainly like it. and maybe during all this time i can be in spain as a "tourist" but really working under contract by the DC office as they originally planned.
my "new" boss and the lawyer in DC have been out of town, so i haven't gotten feedback from them regarding all this information i sent them. i just hope they don't want to give up on the situation given all the red tape to go through!
(and i mean REALLY hope, as i've already given up my job and home here in MIA. ha!)
They must have known about the red tape when they made the offer. Pretty much everything works like this here in Spain... Try not to worry too much, I think it will all work out with persistence.
About the time for the Visa in DC--I don't think that there's any way that it will take 6 months--maybe in Colombia or Ecuador, but there just aren't that many Americans getting Spanish visas. We were told two weeks-one month maximum, but we'll see when the time comes (I'll post back).
The last visa that I got through the DC consulate took 10 days (after all of the paperwork was in order, I mean) even though they said that it could take up to two months. I think they just like to scare people.
But if your place of residence is Miami, wouldn't you apply at the consulate there?
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
Posts: 1064 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
yes, i guess they did know about the red tape mariposita. not sure if they thought it would take 8 months in spain in addition to some months with the consulate in the US. btw, it was the consulate that told me 1-6 months... and i would apply in DC b/c my permanent residence (and where i pay my taxes) is in virginia.
also, my "new" boss said he was worried about troubles with me getting a visa because of governmental reciprocity. i guess apparently the US is giving spanaids (all foreigners?) a tough time with getting visas, so spain may just give me a hard time back...
(It's also a great site for all sorts of other legal issues in Spain. They have a bunch of factsheets under "supuestos prácticos.") One interesting tidbit... It looks like those requesting a work visa and are transferring to Spain within the same company can sometimes skip the step that requires that the job be listed with the employment office and that a certificate be issued stating that no Spaniard or EU citizen seeking work was qualified for the job. Not sure if this will apply in your case...
If not, you might try to get them to list the job asap, as that step seems to be a bit complicated and can take some time.
Posts: 1064 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
wow, mariposita, great info! i'm reading through this and trying to absorb it, but legal/very formal writing is sometimes difficult. The DC office is technically a different organization from the Spain office, and we were trying to use that to our advantage as far as me being there and working while the visa was getting processed, but perhaps we should go the other rout and try to show they are related and not have to deal with that special certificate...
Is letter K related to this same situation? Is it saying that if I get the visa through a work transfer, then I will only have a work visa and not a residence card?
What would that mean as far as my legality and residence situation in Spain?
Thanks again for this. Looking forward to your thoughts...
I'm not sure what they mean by a trabajador transfronterizo, but I think this would refer to a migrant worker--someone who only works in Spain for a part of the year (like some agricultural workers). But I could be wrong about that...
Remember that in Spain, the visa is only for the initial entry into the country, so after you get the visa, you'll apply for residency once you are here (which is just a formality, getting the visa is the hardest part). This is when you'll get your DNI (ID card) and tax number.
Keep us posted on all of the steps. I don't think anyone doing this from the US has ever written down the process. You are a pioneer!
Posts: 1064 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
I think the trabajador transfronterizo is more to do with working in Spain and living in France/Andorra/Gibraltar/Portugal/Morocco (there are indeed frontiers with Morocco).
A search turned up this, which confirms the above and looks useful also for legal issues.
ah, got it. nelsongabriel, i did see that page before but never paid attention to those words. now it makes more sense. i will send my boss the page mariposta gave me to see if it helps us. right now we are trying to get confirmation from the lawyer if "not being in spain" while they do my application means i just can't be in spain, or i must remain in the US! in the case of the former, i may be "stationed" in another country in stead.
right now i am waiting to get my transcripts back from the state capitals with the apostille stamps. then i'll get them translated- mariposita, i did call the embassy for a traductor jurado and they gave me a man's name. hopefully this translation will also cover the homologation step.
i have read some things about me needing to go get the residency card within a month after arriving. i was going to get that clarification later on. now i have been just trying to get my facts straight on the first-step-visa part! i'm sure this thread will be highly useful in the future, with mariposita guiding me in the right direction and them me writing down what is actually being done...
That makes sense nelsongabriel--couldn't quite wrap my mind around that concept...
binkx-- Homologación is a completely separate (and, may I say, horrible) process... You won't be able to get your degree homologado in time for this process (it takes a very long time and has to go through the Ministry of Education--I know there's a thread here about this somewhere).
So, when the company that hires you lists the job with the employment office, they will have to classify the job as one that doesn't require the degree, but requires other unique qualities/experiences that you have. You can then include your transcripts as part of your general qualifications. Once the job is listed with the employment office, they get a list of candidates (hopefully none) and have 5 or 10 days to interview them and make their decision. If there are no suitable candidates, then they get a certificate to this effect and the wheels keep turning...
If there were a way to skip this step (for instance by getting transferred) that could save some papeleo. Did I mention that this is a rite of passage...
Posts: 1064 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
oh boy... so the Ministry is going to give my company a list of candidates that they have to interview?... even though the company itself has alread gone through their own interviewing process? They had 80 candidates and ended up interviewing about 15, myself includeed...
hey binkx-- Whenever a company in Spain (or anywhere in the EU?) wants to hire a non-EU citizen, they have to list the job with the Spanish employment agency to make sure that there is no one on the Spanish dole or seeking work who is qualified for the job.
From what I've heard from others, this step is mostly a formality, since there has to be someone who is a. listed in the system b. meets the requisites; c. lives near the job in question d. acts quickly to apply and interview and e. (and this is a BIG if) wants to work.
Since the company wants YOU, I don't think you have anything to worry about. It's just one of the steps that takes a few weeks to resolve (still waiting here... will let you know how it goes).
Posts: 1064 | Location: Madrid | Registered: 10 December 2002
