Hi there to all. First of all, I can't express enough thanks for this message board. There really is nothing like recent, first-hand accounts of Madrid goings on to get a prospective idea on moving, jobs, etc.

Anyway, i did a lot of sifting through messages to gauge the challenge of making a move to madrid, and I'm still a bit confused about a couple of things:

1. You mention that moderate Spanish proficiency can benefit jobseekers. Does this go for an american like myself that won't be arriving with a job? Is bar-work, washing dishes, etc. a viable way to make a living in Madrid?

2. The general idea I get is that it's getting more difficult to find work as an illegal american, but that "where there's a will, there's a way" still applies somehow.

My plan from the outset is to save 2-3000 dollars, move, and just hope for the best. As BAS posted, I really am willing to do most anything, and I guess I hope that my moderate Spanish fluency and teaching credential will help. I don't know. Does this sound insane? Will I more than likely be packing a month later and scurrying home?

Again, thanks so much for this site. I feel like this will be the greatest resource for one the most importand decisions and moves I've ever made (or not, depending).

If anyone has any advice, I'd be ridiculously grateful...

Kelly, I wish I was posting with answers, but I'm writing to say, "I second; will the multimadrid vets please weigh in on this?"

This is *exactly* the question I find myself mulling now that I've bought my ticket (6/4), giant duffel and outlet adapters.

You and I share the same self-assessment of our language skills, rough gameplan, and sense of our odds of getting gainful employ. Plus I secretly want to landscape for cash during the Summer if getting a class is too hard immediately.

I'm also choosing to forego the TEFL training until I arrive and test the waters, because most people I've asked about this say something like "there is enough demand for native English speaker that it shouldn't be a problem."

My hunch is that I am talking to people who have found their own jobs, been happy that they moved, but don't want the burden of influencing someone to move, only to have them go bust. My sense is that it won't land in my lap, but if I bust my ass and I'm confident, I'll be ok.

Like I said, I want to second your question. What about jobs other than IT, Ingles, and starting your own company? What stories might the multimadrid crew have heard about zany things immigrants might have done to earn cash?

Kelly, we should KIT

-Pannill

Pannill writes:

quote:

My hunch is that I am talking to people who have found their own jobs, been happy that they moved, but don't want the burden of influencing someone to move, only to have them go bust.

Pannill and Kelly, I think Pannill hit the nail on the head with the above comment. Here you will find tons of people who are willing to weigh in and offer their opinions on towns to see, trains to take, restaurants to eat in and bars to visit. Most people, with reason, will not weigh in to tell you to GO FOR IT simply because the decision to move overseas and giving up what you have in the states is a huge and PERSONAL decision (afterall, you can catch a later train or eat in a different restaurant).

That said, I can offer you my perspective. I am an American who moved here because I married a Spaniard. While being legal isn�t an issue for me, everything else with MAKING THE LEAP parallels with what you may be faced with.

I gave up a great 10 yr. career (and excellent paying) to make this move. Perhaps some of you considering the move are recent college grads and don�t "have as much to lose". It took alot of weighing the options and serious considerations to come up with our decision to live in Spain. Quite frankly, I couldn�t be happier with my choice.

Am I working in my career field here? No. Will I ever hope to earn as much money a year as I was in the USA? Most likely not (never say never). But the quality of my life had increased 10 fold. I am with my life partner, a person that I love dearly. I am much more relaxed (no more stressful 60+ hour work weeks), and generally enjoy life more.

What do I regret about my move? Nothing. What do I miss most? Of course my family and friends (although we are in contact frequently through IMs and email). However, I am busy making new friendships here in Spain and getting to know my "new family" (my husband�s family) much better.

Look at all the immigrants that go to the USA everyday without speaking a lick of English. Somehow they make it. They survive. They find or create a network of friends and family who are willing to help them when the going gets rough. There is an expat community here in Madrid and Jer provides an excellent forum and link as well. Might I say that Jer IS the expat community ?

I believe that anyone who has a little gumption, is willing to scramble (which is what you will have to do with an illegal status) for work, and willing to work hard will succeed here. And the best part is, that if you are of the mindset to make this move to Spain, then you have the character and fortitude necessary to succeed.

I suppose what I am trying to get at, in a long winded response, is that apart from the economic factors you need to consider the social/emotional factors. There will always be jobs for people willing to do them. Dealing with the social adjustment, and yes, the loneliness that can hit you, can be a bit more challenging, especially if your command of the language is not strong. However with time (and everything comes with time) you will adjust just fine.

Hope I didn�t sound too preachy or mushy. Just trying to paint a realistic picture. I know I didn�t answer the question about making a living working in a bar or other employment opportunities. I think those are things you need to determine for yourselves. Keep in mind that the summer is not the best time to be looking for work (apart from bars and restaurants). Keep your chin up, a positive attitude and you will be fine!

P.S. sorry for the corny message. but then again, I can be corny like that!!

Chica,

You have expressed so eloquently what I have been saying all along. QUERER ES PODER (Where there is a will, there's a way). Thanks you so much for giving hope to everyone and showing them that it can be done. Granted, the legal route has its hassles, which I am ready to tackle, but making the move and deciding to be legal is a very PERSONAL one.

I hope to make the move this September and I have struggled all my life being a full-time student. That won't be new to me at all.

Do'nt let anyone tell you that what you want to do in life is impossible. PLEASE go forward with your dreams and MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Shawn

Thanks to all who have replied - your comments and observations are encouraging and have more or less affirmed what I'd imagine. Again, thanks for your time and enthusiasm. I know I still have more ressearch to do, and by the time I arrive around August, I should have what I need to work it out...

Panhill - You must be excited...june 4 is not so far away!
Indeed, let's keep in touch; honestly, I'll probably be hitting you up for first impressions of madrid, etc. Best of luck til then, and if I find out any useful teaching, work information, I'll get it to you asap. Again, congratulations on your move...

Jer, thanks for reposting your housing thread - it always helps rereading those!

good luck to all and see you en Espa�a!

kellyb

Hi Kelly, Chica is right on the money with all she has said and since she covered it all soooo well, I basically hung out and waited to add my 2 Eurocents worth

I am so enthusiastic about Spain that at times I am one of those who say "GO FOR IT!" without keeping in mind the possible difficulties of "making it" here.

One piece of advice I will add to this thread is the same that I have given to many, that is to save up more than $2,000-$3,000 if you can before you come over. I know it is hard but that # really should be more like $5,000 (needless to say, the more the better ).

I can also fill in the gaps where some others may not be able to and tell you that bar work in Madrid is decently paid but not too easy to come by. This is because many native English speaking Ex-pats who come here and do not like the English teaching gigs decide that they will look fo bar/pub work and the demand is not that great.

I have seen pub job offering on my classifieds section at www.multimadrid.com/classifieds in the past and you never know if there will be more in the future so keep an eye out.

Saludos,
jer...

I would only recommend that ya'll see how transplanting here will affect your life plans for 5 - 10 years down the road. I can't see it getting easier to get work permits here and at least from my experience they aren't easy to come by. Obviously surviving here is possible, with plenty of scrambling, uncertainty and hard work. And if that's taking you in a direction that you want to go - than go for it! - but I'd sure recommend planning on everything taking more time than you'd like to fall (get pushed) into place. As a side note - I met a couple the other day who are here as missionaries, they have legal residency but can not be paid through a spanish business, they are paid a salary through their US church. Just an idea! Adios and buen suerte Anne.

I am not worried about 5 or 10 years down the line. I am living for today, not tomorrow, for I know that tomorrow isn't promised to me. ALthough the advice that you give is quite interesting, I am from the school of following your heart and going along with your destiny.

I truly believe that we have appointments in life and that we are destined to meet certain individuals to learn from what they have to offer. That's another thread.

Back to the subject at hand. We have very little control over what happens five years from now, so why worry about it? GO WITH THE FLOW AND ENJOY LIFE.

Shawn

Dear Redwood:

I admire your sense of adventure for sure, but I think long term planning is not only smart and practical, but serves to perpetuate a life of adventure. I present no argument to what you say, I'm just coming from somewhere else right now...

My sense of adventure (rock and roll) has left me twenty-nine years old, finishing school, and in debt for it. Yes, I'm a little bitter about that. I could have planned a little better and, ultimately, had more prosperous adventures, culturally and monetarily.

Would I change anything given the opporturnity? Probably not. Should people plan for five years from now? Yes, if they can. Will I go to Spain without enough money and struggle in debt and uncertainty to get by? Probably so.

Sincerely,

my parents

You have said it in a nutshell when you used the word "I". Everyone has a different way of living and I am in debt also after doing an MA, so what you are saying is not new to me.

I differ from you because I have 5 plans that can get me to Spain and I will put each of them into play as if each one were the last. I have been planning for this moment and will make it happen. I am a very focused person and refuse to settle for second best.

I used to think that cafreful planning and precision would help me, but so much was thrown my way, including wonderful opportunities, that my course changed within the blink of an eye. I know that all that I am doing is leading me up to one point in life, HAPPINESS.

I think for sure
That what it is
Will be whatever it will be

Don't be afraid
To understand
A plan bigger
Than you and me

I Think for Sure
N'Dambi, Little Lost Girls Blues

I hold the above quote true to heart, for the universe holds the key to many of lifes' answers that we struggle to find. I am at a different point in my life than where I was one year ago. I am learning to obtain inner peace and harmony.

All in all, pursue your plans by planning your life out and have a blast while you do it. I, on the other hand, will take things one day at a time, for I could die 3 minutes after writing this Email without knowing that is my time to go and without ever knowing why.

Remember

Love your heart.
More than the lungs that breathe life.
More than the privates that give life.
Love your heart.
For this is the prize.

Sincerely,

Shawn

Couldn't make it all the way through the philosophizing(I'm old, bear with me), but please, please,please: if you have student loans,pay them back! Funding for higher education is drying up at the same time tuition is rising.

Then, of course, have all the adventures your hearts desire. It took me 27 years to return to Spain,partly due to poverty and partly due to a lack of sufficient passion.
Now I have so many ties here that living there for more than a month or two just isn't going to happen.

Good luck to your efforts!

Sue,

Thanks for the advice, but I am in the process of paying back my student loans. I consolidated them into one easy payment.

I have planned for this and I am glad that you responded in the way that you did.

Have a blessed day,

Shawn

boy, i am so "with" you in heart. i have 2 kids, one started college this year, one in 9th grade. I too developed a passion..late in life, just last year, for spain, madrid, salamanca and who knows what other unexplored terrain: but i am so committed to spending at least a year there. I have a few more years to do here and be a good parent to my children and I wouldn't be apart for them for anything, but once they go off to college, ;let's face it, mom is not where they want to spend their time! After reading all y'all's stuff, i wondered if several of you couldn't just pool your resources and share living arrangements til you get your feet on the ground?(yes, I realize none of you know each other, you just all sound of the same free spiritedness and bright intellect, what the hey, why not?!) I am at the point that when I can get there, I would sleep on the floor just to be there. Best wishes to you all, and I say GO FOR IT!!!