NICOLAS REYES Talks about the history and future of The Gipsy Kings with Christina Roden
"At first, we were a little nervous about facing the world. Now it is our life. After all, we have been travelling for centuries - we have only exchanged caravans and horses for cars and planes... Now the cops are in front of us, not behind!" - Nicolas Reyes
Everyone likes to revisit their roots and the Gipsy Kings have done so with a new album by that name. The group that brought flamenco up to date with hits like “Bamboleo,” has reverted to an acoustic style, with 16 new songs recorded in a converted French farmhouse.
“It was a great change,” says Kings’ vocalist Nicolas Reyes. “We played just like we do in gypsy camps, improvising around a fire in a circle with the guitar player, Palmas (hand claps), and singers.”
Of course, the eight-man ensemble did have some up-to-date help. Producer Craig Street brought in bassist Greg Cohen, and guest artists like Garth Hudson on accordion. But Roots’ sound is rumba flamenco, a venerable form of music that evolved from African rhythms and travelled via the New World back to Spain.
The Gipsy Kings - composed of Canut, Nicolas, Andre, Pablo, and Patchai Reyes and Diego, Paco, and Tonino Baliardo, learned this music from their native Catalan Spanish heritage (their grandparents left Spain for France during the Franco years). The group formed in the late ‘70s and began playing under the name Los Reyes (The Kings), singing in French, Spanish, and the dialect known as gitane. It would be the fusion of this traditional music with modern electronics that led to their worldwide success, 15 albums, and two PBS specials.
But the Kings were reportedly tired of recording in modern Parisian studios and wanted to try a more “natural” sound. Enter Street, who helped them find and remodel the farmhouse and took them through the process of uncovering their natural sound.
Flamenco encompasses many singing and playing styles, with terms ranging from afillá (a hoarse, earthy singing voice) to zapateados (a style requiring fancy footwork). Roots, takes us on a tour of flamenco’s universe, with such classic forms as the fandango and the bulerias. A fandango is a rather sad kind of song about hardships and Roots gives us two versions, one by Patchai and one by Nicolas, both demonstrating extraordinary solo guitar technique.
Tonino Baliardo demonstrates his guitar skill on the “Bulerias,” the fastest of all flamenco forms. Percussion on this track includes the aforementioned hand-claps and the cajon, a instrument similar to an empty wooden box.
The Kings also throw in eclectic touches such as a jazz-inflected instrumental, “Nuages,” by the legendary Django Reinhardt, and their version of a “Boogie,” done flamenco style but with a washboard and some “doo-wops” thrown in. And then there are the improvised moments. The album’s final track “Petite Noya” came about, according to Street, when “Diego Baliardo, who had never really written a song, came in with this melody and a few words. The rest of the guys liked it and took it from there.” The result: a lively number with a sing-along chorus that suggests some heavy partying.
The virtuosity of the Gipsy Kings’ musicianship may make some rockers want to turn in their fuzz boxes. But who knows? Roots may just inspire them to new heights.
"You know.. the narrow minded are everywhere and from everywhere, unfortunately. It is natural and necessary that our music will develop new sounds with the help of new instruments. But our rhythms, our guitars and our voices will always stay, and if we have to go 'on the road again', it will be with them."
The Gipsy Kings are members of a minority that has been persecuted for centuries, so it is ironic that they should now find themselves under fire for a perceived lack of authenticity. The loudest sceptics are generally those who know very little about them, but are irritated by the group's high profile and appalled by the unintellectual hordes who lionize them. However, it becomes apparent with only a little digging that the combo's music is a logical result of their cultural heritage as Gypsies and their family background and training. The only genuine selling out is going on at the box office. Beyond this, whether or not their style charms or repels the listener is a matter of subjective taste.
The history of the Gypsy people is a crucial matter for Nicolas Reyes, the lead singer of the band, both as a person and as an artist. The prevalent theory is that the Gypsies originated in India. Aside from a physical resemblance between the peoples, there are also similarities between the Hindi, Sanskrit and Romanes (Gypsy) languages; about one word in three is a match, or close to it. The tribal or caste laws and taboos are also noticeably alike. Speaking through an interpreter, Nicolas Reyes agrees. "Our people left the north of India, where our race originated, between the fifth and sixth centuries." he says, "We went in different directions, which created different tribes with names like Roms, Sinti or Gipsy . We were called "travelling people" because those who lived in the countries where we went did not authorize us to live in their territories." The word "Gypsy" is a corruption of "Egyptian", and it is true that some tribes passed through there on their way west into Europe. By the 15th century, Gypsies were widely distrusted outsiders but useful as blacksmiths and itinerant musicians. Their constant wandering necessitated the creation of strong internal codes. "Our traditions are very important for us." says Nicolas, "As an ever oppressed and pursued community, our children have a particular importance. Children are Kings!"
His family migrated to Southern France during the Spanish Civil War. Nicolas says, "The Gipsy people - as usual - were not allowed to take part in the fight, other than being shot at. So, the best way to stay alive was to run away from Spain and the South of France was the nearest and best place in terms of weather and location." The Reyes’s joined the Gypsy encampment at Arles and worked at anything they could get, including gathering scrap metal and various occupations at the local grape harvest. "We are from the Gitano branch," notes Nicolas, "Our dialect is a combination of the language from the north-east of Spain, where our family stayed until 1936, and the French provincial language from where we are since." They sang as they worked, improvising and trading licks. Afterward, they gathered around the campfires back at the caravans, and the men sang and played while the women danced.
N. Reyes The Reyes' grandfather was a horse trader and a respected leader of the tribe. Their father, Jose, worked with his father at first, but became a famous singer who performed with the guitarist Manitas de Plata at Carnegie Hall and was much admired by Picasso, Cocteau, Dali and Charlie Chaplin. While he was adept at the demanding and impassioned Cante Jondo (deep singing) style of Flamenco vocalizing, he was also at home with the more accessible Rumba-Flamenca. No party was complete until he showed up. As he had a large family of five sons and six daughters, Jose Reyes found it more practical to move into a house on the Rue Des Douaniers at Arles. From then on, the caravans were only used for travel to the annual gatherings at Saintes Marie de la Mer, where the Reyes’s caught up with clan doings and paid their respects to Saint Sara, the patron of Gypsies. "We were obliged to live in a Nomadic lifestyle because no community wanted to accept us." says Nicolas, "The decision to live in houses was taken when we had enough money to do it. Let me remind you, that to send children to school you need a legal address. You cannot do it when you live in a caravan. In the past, our parents were obliged to move from place to place every 3 days. Just try to establish a real relationship with anyone during such a brief period!."
Jose's sons were interested in music at an early age. Nicolas recalls, "There is a Gipsy legend which says that, when an old Gipsy singer or guitarist understands that he is going to die, he will sing or play for a pregnant woman. Then, the first child who is born will get his talent. When we were children, we were filled with wonder while watching our fathers and uncles playing, singing and having fun together all night long. We wanted to do the same. First, we tried to play with our older brothers' guitars in order to be as happy as they seemed to be. After many broken strings and spankings on the bottom, they decided to teach us how to play. Nowadays, it is the same for our children."
After he left Manitas de Plata, Jose chose to perform with his sons. Although Canute was the singer whose promise flowered earliest, Jose was confident that Nicolas would also find his way. The group was known as "Jose Reyes And Los Reyes" and eventually, after Jose's day, simply as "Los Reyes". Nicolas explains, "'Gipsy Kings' means in Spanish 'Los Gitanos Reyes' which is a combination of our family name and the tribe's name." The current incarnation of the group was forged when the four Reyes brothers (Pablo, Nicolas, Patchai and Canute) re-encountered their Baliardo cousins (Tonino, Diego and Paco) at Saintes Marie de la Mer. The Reyes were strongest as singers while the Baliardos were master guitarists and so, after an all-night jam session, they decided to go on together. Nicolas says their new name was given to them by accident, "An American woman, after asking us our name and origin, exclaimed 'Oh, you are Gipsy KINGS!' We kept the English name."
"You know.. the narrow minded are everywhere and from everywhere, unfortunately. It is natural and necessary that our music will develop new sounds with the help of new instruments. But our rhythms, our guitars and our voices will always stay, and if we have to go 'on the road again', it will be with them."
Nicolas was most profoundly drawn to folkloric styles such as Cante Jondo while his brothers favoured Rumba-Flamenca, which was easier to dance to. There was no conflict between them as the band moved in a pop direction while holding onto the raw, jagged vocals and "Palmas" clapped rhythms derived from their Spanish heritage. "Flamenco," explains Nicolas, " is the purest essence of our music - we could compare it to Jazz music. It is the deep shout and tears of our community. Rumba-Flamenca is the popular expression of Flamenco - burning and passionate - an expression of our happiness and our sensual attitudes - how we face up to life. I believe that each generation has its own interpretation of how to play the Rumba-Flamenca. Today, with the coming of new technologies, faster development and diffusion and, hopefully, with the renunciation of racial and social prejudice; it is natural that traditional music will change." How does he relate to critics who scorn the hybrid? "You know.. the narrow minded are everywhere and from everywhere, unfortunately. It is natural and necessary that our music will develop new sounds with the help of new instruments. But our rhythms, our guitars and our voices will always stay, and if we have to go "on the road again", it will be with them." He is adamant that his first sources are at the centre of everything he does. "It is difficult to explain something what is in your blood, your spirit and your heart. It is, that's all."
Kings hope to reclaim Gypsy name
Folk band the Gipsy Kings say they want to "reclaim" the word gypsy to turn it into something positive.
I don't know about you guys, but, I have been for a long time now, interested in the history of the Spanish gipsy, in España~Spain, and about what happened to them since the 15th century, and have been recently been listening to a narration about what went on in Spain in the 15th century, under the rule of el Rei Felipe Quinto, as well as my previous research into the life of gipsy families in Andalusia, over the last few centuries, mainly because of my fascination with the creation of the wonderfully Spanish Flamenco music, singing, dancing, costumes, culture, traditions, et cetera, and yes, I did say "Spanish" you heard me correctly, because those people known as the "gipsies" (although, migrants from India originally) are every bit as much Spanish as any other race, color or creed, Iberian in origin, or Mediterranean, or Germanic, Roman, Celtic, Greek, or whatever their ancestry, but it still seems to me, after a long period of asking many different people here in Spain, that the gipsies of Spain, and/or those directly descended from them (such as the gipsy Kings) are disregarded in the extreme, thought of as aliens, scum, rubbish, low lives, are even hated by many in the north, and their music is despised, as being a non Spanish, Arab sounding bad influence upon the older folkloric copla type of music. But I disagree with them strongly, and believe that it was they who came here to Spain and breathed a new form of live into this country and it's music, traditions, customs, festivals, dancing, both they and the moros, who created so many things, things that today we call "Spanish" and yet they who did all the donkey work, in creating those wonderful things for this country, rarely get any credit for any of it, except perhaps within some older more traditional, closer/tighter knit Andalusian communities, such as in Triana, and Lebrija, for example.
It makes me feel sad to think that, not only did the Arabs~Moros, who brought such fantastic Architectural wonders to this land, were thrown out of (what was in reality, their homeland, not only were the native Semitic people of Spain, the Jews, Sephardim, persecuted and ultimately brutalised into submission, and conversion to Catholicism, and expulsion from Spain forever, but the gipsies too suffered greatly in similar ways, including forced slavery in the mines.
It is a really sad chapter in Spanish history, one it seems that too many people nowadays in Spain, who thoroughly enjoy everything that Spain has to offer, does not want to acknowledge, including many people that I've met who actually enjoy flamenco music, but don't believe who, what, when, & where it all came from, I mention the dirty word "gipsies" from India and Arabs from Damascus in Syria to them, and they throw-up & say no way, "surely it's Spanish music they say" and I tell them yes, exactly, that's it, Spanish music, created by people who have as much right to be called Spanish as anybody else, they helped in a huge way to make Spain what it is today, with all it's exciting festivities & numerous other forms of entertainment, processions, parades, religious events, Ferias, Falias, et cetera.
Anyway, I hope that you enjoyed the other info that I posted above.
Here is a link that might be of interest.......
Third day of the 2007 Caja Madrid Festival: Esperanza Fernández / "Aluricán en azul y verde", Gipsy airs from Triana and Lebrija Esperanza Fernández The 2007 Caja Madrid Festival reached its midpoint. Gipsy song, music and dance were on offer on the third day. The versatile and elegant singing of the Triana artist Esperanza Fernández made up the first part of the programme. The night finished off with the performance http://www.esflamenco.com/scripts/news/ennews.asp?frmIdPagina=643
ANGELO.
Posts: 699 | Location: Santander "La Costa Verde" | Registered: 11 August 2003
Thanks Paulo, I appreciate the sentiments and words of wisdom, lets hope that we might catch the attention of others on multimadrid, and that they too will become interested in the history of the Iberian peninsular, both Spain and Portugal, both very special places in the long, long history of southern europe and the Mediterranean, and all that sprang forth from the Iberian peoples over the course of many, many centuries, from the Tartessos up to present day, it is an extremely exhausting subject for sure, but also extremely fascinating & satisfying, and you're right about Santander & Zaragoza, they really do have a long & deep rooted history indeed, it is just so sad that so many people that I met here seem to know very little about the place that they are living in, or working in, their live are just too beset by daily domestic & financial problems for them to even care about any of it, but thank god that there are still a few of us around, who are into it, and do continue to try and pass on the knowledge that we have attained through our nightly reasearch, nad one day, we historians will be worth our weight in gold, and they will come to us and ask, why what was this & that? and why? where? when? & how? If people don't pay attention to the lessons that history has taught us, then history will just keep on repeating itself over & over, and as you can see, the world today is still in turmoil, still beset by troubles and conflicts all over.
"Coming to term with the lessons one learns, through the choices one makes, is not easy".
Thanks for posting Paulo, and welcome to multimadrid.
hate to sound trivial on such a deep thread but you have been a member here WAY too long for me to have to be correcting your "M" in Multimadrid to the correct "m" in multimadrid
Sorry buddy, didn't spot that one, it's not often that I let that happen, but today I'm dog tired, sooooooo busy, toooo much typing & peperwork, & eyes glued to the PC, and so used to capitalizing company names all the time when I type, you know how it is.
Cheers, Saluditos.
Angelino.
Posts: 699 | Location: Santander "La Costa Verde" | Registered: 11 August 2003
That all depends if you wish to express the capital M as a "bold" announcement, like Multi-Madrid or as a "soft" expression like multimadrid...see?
I would use the capital because Spain is a glorious nation.
Here is an article from my museum link in my website.
The Kiss of Europa by Riven.(2005.aD)
Pliny the Elder:
quote:
"Opposite to Celtiberia are a number of islands, by the Greeks called Cassiterides1 , in consequence of their abounding in tin: and, facing the Promontory2 of the Arrotrebæ, are the six Islands of the Gods, which some persons have called the Fortunate Islands3."
In Antiquity, the promontory of the Arrotrebae, was above the NW corner of Portugal, known as Lucitannia. This region is known as TARRACONENSIS which bordered the North Iberian shores to France and the Pyrenaei Montes(Pyrrenese Mts.),below SW France known as GALLIA.
I think this was also the land of Tartessus, but on the East coast at TARRACO facing the Baleares Islands in the Gulf of Tyrrhenia.(Augustus Mare 30.bC)
Edgar Cayce also mentions the Pyrrenese as a piece of the Atlantis puzzle. This is rather obvious considering the wealth of minerals to be found in Iberia.
The Balearic Islands was the main Fortress to the East, watching for marauding Etruscans or Greeks and Egyptian Persians for the wealth of Tartessos.
Above Tarraco you have the Cosetani who border the Laletani's on the northern coastline. Behind the Laletani's we find the Ausetani's. All below the Pyrennes Mt.s, which the Indigetes reign the land where the Mountains wash their feet in the Gulf of Tyrrhenia.
Behind the Indigetes and bordering the mountain lie the Ceretani who have a place called Orgia which is next to the Sicoris River, going more south along the river into the backyard of the Cosetani and where the river splits into 4 rivers, we find Octogesa. Two close names for Ogygia, but not an island, unless it was an island on a river.
All these regions south of the Great Pyrrenese Mountains are those of the early Basques and Aquitannis from 40,000.bC and the Azilians who taught us writing and the Alphabet in 9000.bC. (I hope future scholars don't say that I said 4000.bC:roll eyes).
It is strikingly coincidental to Critias' statement of "near the center of the plain, and with mountains bordering (Carpetani/Carpathia Mts.) we find ATILIANA belonging to the ATRIGONES which they were settled even over the Pyrranese to The Gulf of Gallia. On the North side of the Pyrranese and to the West were the Caristi who were bordered by the Cantabri. Off of these coastlines should lie Ogygia and the Isles of the Cassiterides.
Atiliana's neighbouring city is Barbariana, perhaps where the word Barbarians may have come from. These cultures were known as the Berbones.
From the Coast of Augustus, near Tarraco, The Iberus River became the grand Canal that flowed past Caesar Augusta in the Ilergetes Tribes and North west through the JA-CETANI tribes where the rich city of POMPELO is. Near here, the tail of the Iberus River fades at ALBA. Southwest from here, about 7 days travel lies ATILIANA.
Following along the west side of the Iberus river from Caesar Augusta lie the following cities:
On the extreme NorthWest tip of Iberia we find the Artabri Tribes. Bordering them on the extreme North are the LUCENSES who border the Cantabri on the east side along the Coast
The promontory is now underwater which they spoke of, and where the Seat of Saturn was welded off the banks of Arae Sestanse and Artabrum Vel Nerium.
As Atlas had the Promontory of Tunisia, Gadeiros had the promontory of Saturn,so to say,Iberia.
ATILIANA hints at a remnance of Atlantis and it's ancestors that came from the shores of the Atlantic, and could be a wealth of knowledge for us, as it is also new to myself. Together we learn.
We might just make Cayce come back sooner than 2152.aD.
Back to Ulysses Ship.
So how do we get to ATILIANA from the ATLANTIC OCEAN?
Well, if we came from the Promontory of Saturn we would just follow the Pyrennese Mountains like Atlas did when he went through Zagorra along the Atlas Mountains.
Or we would have sailed the northern coastline past the Cantabri Tribes and cut through the mountains as the ANTRIGONES tribes.
At the Northern border of Lucitania and Tarraconensis we find the city of Calle and the ASTURA River that flows towards Atiliana. Going east along the river we pass Praesidium,Lama and Caladunium then north to Ocelum where after the Astura flows east again. Just after the north turn, the first river branch and staying to the right at the fork, takes us to a beautiful hidden city cradled by the curving mountain called AD LIPPOS (Leucippe).
After the north Astura,on the second east route past Ocelum, we stay straight until the sister branch of the river (even intersection) then go left to Sentimanca, staying left at the first fork and right at the second fork we pass PATLANTIA over on the other river had we gone left. Staying to the right and exiting either following rivers, takes us into the lands of Atiliana and Barbariana.
The traderoute from the Seat of Saturn and West Tarraconisis is as follows. (I think Herodotus is trying to tell me something )
From Calle, Bracara Augusta, Limia, (Bracarii and Gravii Tribes) Aquae Originis, Aquae Ouerquennae, Geminie, Praesidium, Forum Equrrotum, Gemestarion, Berainum, Interamnium Plavium, Asturuse, Vallata, Interamnium, Pallantia, Viminiacum, Laco briga, Segisama Deobrigula (Idubeda Tribes) Tritium, Viravesca and finally, Atiliana which after would take us through the markets to Tarraco on the east coast at the Gulf of Tyrrhenia which would be Barbariana, Graecuris, Balsio, Allaba, Caesar Augusta, Gallicum, Bortana, Osca, Caus, Talous, Illerda, Ad Novas Ad Septimium Decimum and Tarraco (Tartessus).
Not only were these northern Iberian regions known as Tarraconensis but also as the LUCDUNENSIS.(Leucippe) The ARTABRI cultures spread into the Ambiliates tribes, Ambianis and Atrebates in South West France merging with the Cantabri and Caletes.
At the center of the Artabri on the coastline is the ALETANI settlement which further north along the British Promontory in the Unelli regions lies ALAUNA.
Left of Alauna in the British Ocean part of the Atlantic, lies the sister islands of Riduna Sarnia and Caesarea.
Caesarea could be Ogygia also nestled in the bay of France.
The Atrebates and the Atuatici tribes would have been the extent of stronger Atlantean genes into NorthWest Europe. So, parlez vous francais, should be parlez vous Atlantez The French are also Atlantean!
Further south into Lusitannia would lie the famous city of Olisippo,(Elassipus) where we can follow the great Tagus River places like Collippo, Aritium Praetorium, Ad 7 Aras, and Emerita Augusta and north to Leuciana.
The history in Europe seems to point more towards Atlantean migrations through Portugal and France, wherupon when they merged into South East Spain and the Straites of Gibraltar they became the BAETICANS >Etruscans > Italians.
The reason being that Portugal was closer to the North East corner of Atlantis by about 200 miles.
Chalcidius/Timaeus Translation by Riven using Cassell's new latin dictionary,1959 edition. (2005.aD.)
and which into one place projecting out of and before it was known the good deed memorial of the old soldiers sadly: the enormous horror in the past rested upon being unconquerable to count the emancipation of slaves,to seek for near by this time a lingering hesitation to Europe and also Asia to come over suddenly, a swarming legions of people that destroyed from out of Atlantic Sea the war between all of our kind and our nations brought upon us.
At which time is certain the straite over there destroyed,in my opinion,the passage held in this manner and more so the entrance formed a curved island, the fact that the mouth belonging to Hercules on account of the Pillars; on which side a certain fertile small island the largest isto what extent with Libya and Asia.
Connected with therefore along with that which is very much near the other islands in the direction which is certain of long ago in the passage open through all the way towards disappearing islands and entering upon land controlled neighbouring near from the Sea; by all means that which is inside the mouth of supposing that Hercules Pillars the narrow straite the fact that the shore, in which place as yet still at this moment the Harbour ages the visible tracks, long ago a moderation, but from that place of the open Sea immeasurable and also that cannot be estimated the greatness from the Sea. Therefore with that which is this Atlantic Island largest and the most admired power to control out of which to rule all of the Islands bordering with the others to possess the largest which shared control of the ownership, if indeed the third world shared,to seek Libya to be in the power of, and through towards Egypts leader, Europa from through towards the Tyrrhenean Sea.
To eagerly seek this thing, a force of power which collected also armed troops of our country, O solitary yours of this region, of which at that time the most of is that nation to eagerly seek within the Hercules Pillars to take stand to attack also by storm often eagerly. At that time long ago your citizens excellence excelled everything glorious arose,
Thanks for the Info Paulo, but I'm well aware of the general rules concerning the usage of capitalization on all the various things that you have itemised. I know it, & you know it, but you try telling them that, and many others who apparently not keen on using capital letters in their post's for some reason. Mind you, the LOGO thing is another matter I guess, that's just a personal preference, but in the main, most people go for Capital letters on the names of things, it's a pretty common practice in advertising & throughout the world, to capitalize names & Important places, as you say, such as "Madrid" and Spain & Potugal et cetera, at least that's the way we learn how to do it in English in England, elsewhere I suppose they have other rules. I've got a friend that went to Japan to develope advanced Japanese, which he did, but he has always said that it was a nightmare then, and still is now years later, I'm glad I dropped Japanese in favor of Spanish, that's all I can say.
Cheers man, have a Cerveza, and be Cool.
Angelo.
Posts: 699 | Location: Santander "La Costa Verde" | Registered: 11 August 2003
So you're research claims that the Gypsy Kings were descendants of India.
I can understand why people of Spain are somewhat resentful to that statement.
Especialy, since the Indo-European influx started to merge with Europe after 3000.bC to the height of Phoenician invasions around 1000.bC and the interjections of muslims and islams.
Most of our scientific research, and mine as you may come to know, also identifies with our out of Africa roots, where the common gene of mitochondrial eve stems to the ethiopian regions near Tanzania to 150,000 years ago, while mans they traced to around 70,000 years ago.
We should bear in mind that the mysterious Anu of Japan, also resemble mediterranean cultures.
In our antiquities, I would say the Gypsies are closer to Minoans and their cultures which also reflect even in Tibet.
I feel that the interjections of Indos into Europe "confused" the paths of true European history.
In antiquity, there were three main routes into Europe from Africa. Out of Egypt into Sinai and Phoenicia. Across Tunisia into Sicily and Italy on the old landbridge. Across the Straites of Gibraltar.
But, the Neanderthals were already there as some of our earliest forms of nomadic tribes or Gypsies if you like since 250,000 to 700,000.bC.
The Basques and Mayans and Tuareg Berbers also form these common roots of nomadic lifestyles earlier in our histories.
You can see that it is a very complicated issue to claim origins for our Earth.
What evidence stands out the most in your mind as to why you believe Gypsies came from India?
What I really enjoy, is that my earth Father, Paulo b.de Mn, was a great Jazz Drummer for some 25 years.
He taught me rhumbas, boleros, tangos, castinets and marraccas when I was around 12-14 years of age.
When I was 15, I joined a very popular Portuguese band with John Santos, a renown artist and musician, as their drummer.
In 1976, we recorded an album at Century 21 studios here in Canada by a sound engineer who used to record the beatles in the big apple.
Our band was called, Os Satellites and lasted for a year because my father kept account records and discovered John and his father were pocketing money.
We were booked every weekend of that year for weddings, socials, fiestas, etc.
Music, like our True histories, is also a passion of my life and in my blood veins also.
No matter what country or nation, professional cultural music should not be criticized like the Reyes for example,even if their personal roots may go back to india.
Sadly enough.
I would not say though, that this is the roots of Gypsies.
The claims and statements are not specifically from me, but rather quotes of what other people have claimed and stated, as I had read various things in past years, by historians, who have been the ones who did the research into the origins of the Spanish Gypsy, specifically about the them, and not so much about all the other lines of gypsy families or tribes, just the native Spanish gypsy, and I have seen written on a number of occasions the statement that they mostly if not all set out from the Punjab in India, and travelled far & wide, some even settling in places like Greece, etc, and that they took with them their traditional Indian dancing and Sufi music, which they introduced into the already existing local traditional folkloric singing & dancing in Andalucía, thus creating something quite new & exciting & later called Flamenco music & dancing, along with their distinctive vocal style (s).
I have to say that I’m no expert in this field, I have an interest in the Spanish side of things, and Spain’s history, but it is only a hobby for me, a pass time, I’m not a scholar of European & Mediterranean history like you obviously are, I just do this for the occasional pleasure that it gives me, I’m not a lecturer or a book writer on the subject like you, I’m way too busy to get into all of it to the same level & degree that you have, I can’t lecture on the true background of the Spanish Gypsy, would love to be able to, and have the time & opportunity to in my life, but haven’t, and like I said, I’m not the one who has been making those claims or statements, they are from other sources that I came across years ago, and cannot be challenged over them, or answer for them, and do not have the inclination to get into a hair splitting contest about whether or not the actually did originally come from the Punjab, but from what I have read over the years, I believe so, I have seen a TV program some 15 years ago, where it was discussed, the connection between India and Andalucía, during which they presented physical evidence/proof, and that was that they had discovered an isolated and traditional local Indian dance routine in north India, which when compared to a particular “palo” or Flamenco dance form which is quite popular in Andalucía, when shown side by side on the screen were about 95% the same movements, with a few differences, yet the dance form from India was said to be many hundreds of years older. But anyway, like I said, I’m no expert on any of this, and I am not going to get into a political debate about it either, I believe that they came to Andalucía, Iberia/Hispania/España/Spain, just as many others came, like the Basques, Celts, Romans, Carthaginians, Phoenicians, Germanic tribes, Vikings, Greeks, north Africans, Gaul’s, Franks, Jews, Arabs, etc, but I’m not looking into going back in history as far as you have done on here, as Spain didn’t exist yet, and I think that as far back as the Tartessos or the Phoenicians is quite far enough back into the distant past of the Iberian Peninsular for me and most others on here, I don’t think too many on here are really all that interested in Spains distant past or the origins of it’s native inhabitants, at least only as far back as the moros of Al-Andalus, and Spain’s golden age.
If you do a search on the threads of this forum, you will find that I previously posted some stuff on the history and roots of Flamenco, with some extremely interesting Links/enlaces within them, which will take you to some of the sources of information that I had originally read & learned from, and within those you will see & hear many claims & statements made by people-in-the-know, who have gone out there and really uncovered the truth to much of it, and with factual evidence have swept away many of the myths surrounding many of the stories about how gypsy families went about their lives, their traditions, culture, beliefs, stories handed down to them from the old ones, the ones who travelled, if you read some of that stuff by those who were invited into the homes of traditional gypsy families, who witness first hand performances of song & dance never usually seen outside of the family, you too will realise that there is truth in what these people have presented, both truth and evidence/proof, and either outsiders want to accept it (as I have done) or not, either way, I’m not bothered if some people don’t believe it, I don’t answer for what others have written, all I can say is that for a long time now, El Flamenco has changed my life, it opened a door within me, it helped to set me free, it has been the liberator of my mind, body and spirit, the expeditor of my dreams, the world of Spanish Flamenco in Spain, has opened up a whole new world for me, one that I didn’t know much about while growing up in a horrible place called London, (not by choice) but now at 48, I’m back in the place of my ancestors, where my roots are, where most peoples roots came from originally in fact, and I get a huge amount of pleasure out of reading up on the last few thousand years of history and the making of this country, (although some of it was quite insane) and particularly the more recent history, from within the last two thousand years. By the way, I understand that many of us Europeans can be traced back to the Basques of northern Spain, I have an article to support that, I can email it to anyone who might be interested in seeing it, just post you email addy on here, and I will sent it over.
We believe there is a place that lives within us all. it is a place of vision and clarity, where the rhythm of life moves in harmony with a higher consciousness.
The purpose of this music is to take you there.
"As in music, so in life"
Anyway, that’s all I’ve got to say right now, I’m way too tired for one, and have got other fish to fry for another, and the nerves in my lower spine are on fire & my left leg is shaking, so I had better go and take another pain killer, and another tranquilliser, and another beta blocker & slide into the bed before I fall on it.
Ciao ciao 4 now,
Angelo@47/48 (soon)
Posts: 699 | Location: Santander "La Costa Verde" | Registered: 11 August 2003
I don't think that there is any hidden subliminal message in any of their songs in particular, of course they are who & what they are, and would like for all listeners of their music to acknowledge that they are in fact "gypsies" and might perhaps enjoy a little bit of recognition, and perhaps help towards giving their fellow gypsies a slightly better image/name, and to perhaps inform people that gypsies have long since been painted as a "rough-lot" a wild breed, and have generally been given a bad reputation, and perhaps they might wish to dispel the myth that all gypsie are bad people, whereas, many of us know that they are not a bad people at all, and in fact are directly responsible for the development of new musical culture in Spain, "Flamenco" as we know it today, many traditions, customs, and ways of living, particularly in Andalucia, but I don't feel that they are just trying to use their musical talents & songs as a vehicle to support a hidden political agenda, or to propagate any political ideals, they are just really great songs, by extremely gifted artists, but who like to be identified for who & what they are, "True gypsies" and not the "phoney white bread" type of so called gypsie that you get calling themselves gypsies, all around the place, in the british Isle's and other countires like Ireland for example, they may be travellers, but they ain't gypsies, and the word "gypsy" as I learned about them, was originally picked up from the old London cockneys of long ago, who (as I have read) were very lazy when it came to saying foriegn names or words, and favoured using contractions on basically everything, and they did not like trying to say the word "Egyptians" and so as the story goes, they just started refering to them as "gypsies" or even "gypoe's" which for them was easier. Now I do not want you to challenge me on this, as like I said, that is just as I have seen it written in the past, and in fact did once see a program on TV about it, in which the narrator said exactly the same thing, and so we must conclude that there must be some element of truth in that story, and if you want to either prove or disprove it, you will just have to go & research it for yourself, but as for me, personally I'm not too bothered about the origins of the name, just the people themselves.
As for my favorite songs by the Gypsy Kings, well I love them all really, I try and play through all of them a few at a time each week, along with all the many hundreds of other great tracks from other great artisits, as that is basically what gets me through the week (most of the time) and helps to keep me sane and keep me going, helps me to get through my constant pain, which I have lived with for many years, and helps to keep me interested in life itself, that and my other interests in Spain and its history, is what keeps me going. You know, the Gypsies music has a kind of magical & mysterious quality to it, almost hypnotic, certainly Intoxicating, very emotional, very dramatic, very deep, but very lighthearted at times too, it has certain Incantaions that seem to eminate from it, and it enchants you in some special way, it's more than just music, it's something else, and the gypsies have long said that "it's in the blood".....and you know what, they were right.
******************************************************* We believe there is a place that lives within us all. it is a place of vision and clarity, where the rhythm of life moves in harmony with a higher consciousness.
The purpose of this music is to take you there.
"As in music, so in life" *******************************************************
I think that one of my distant ancestors must have been a gypsy or something, as since I was very young, my family noticed that I kept on tapping & shuffleling my feet all the time, and knocking & tapping on tables & desk's, and somehow I had this amazing sound going on inside of my head, which sometimes I vocalised, and it wasn't until years later that a Spaniard who I was working with in London, suddenly came over to me, and said, where did you learn how to do that, how to sing like that? I said like what? he said like a gypsy, in my native country, in Andalucia? I said that I have not even been there yet, well he said, what you are doing there is called Flamenco, your vocal sounds and foot tapping are from a gypsy style of song & dance, well I was amazed at this, but he was convinvced that I was joking about not having been there, and ever since then I have been stricken by the curiosity of where & how did I get those sounds and hand & foot actions, and then I started to find things out about myself & my ancestors from Spain. Anyway, that's enough of me for now, I'm now going to listen to one of my Flamenco gods, and that is the almighty 'Jose Merce', who apart from the legendary Camaron and 'El Cigala' of course, who is more or less on the same level as the man from LEBRIJA in Andalucia, the mighty ''El Lebrijano'' Juan Peña, and when I listen to him on the album "Persecucion" & "Lagrimas de cera" it just sends me on a trip, back in time I think. Now that album Persecucion, is about the persecucion of the gypsies, and if one can follow the narration in - Castillian Spanish - is a real piece of work, it's heavy, but well worth getting into if one is really interested in the history of the Spanish gypsy, but Lagrimas de Cera is much more religious and more about La Saeta, which I have posted on/about before on here.
Holy Moses, did I nearly forget to mention the fenominal Diego "el Cigala" who is a huge monster of a performer in the world of flamenco Cante, I have many of his CD's as well of course, he is another one of the great ones, a true exponent of the art of Cante Jondo y Puro. Enough said!!
Now i'm off for a coffee and to play some Jose Merce.
Happy reading to you, and happy listening too!!
Angelo.
Posts: 699 | Location: Santander "La Costa Verde" | Registered: 11 August 2003
I don't mean to say a "hidden agenda", just if there is a message to be heard in general.
Which, you have answered, that the message is spirituality,enlightenment, and the good nature of Gypsy families who should not be looked upon as bad.
The spirit of Flamenco is High, like the Flamingo in the Sky.
I like what you said about your growing up and tapping away to flamenco or tangos,boleros, rhumbas, without knowing it.
True, it is in our blood, just as our languages are encoded in our blood and genes.
An Egyptian Pharaoh once kept two children away from wisdom at birth, to see what word they would speak.
The first word they spoke was "becos" for Bread in old Phrygian, so the Pharaoh thought Phrygians were older than Egyptians.
The truth of this, is that the Europeans had already reached Phrygia before the Egyptians along their 700,000 year journey north along the Nile to Memphis.
The Egyptian Priest, told Solon that the Greek city state was founded 1000 years before the Egyptians.
So you can see like your Flamenco tapping, playing Drums was in my blood also,which I did by ear. Of course, since my father was a jazz drummer for some 25 years.
One of my older sisters became an excellent Jazz dancer and Choreographer. Now she owns a business in real estate.
She was the one who saved our family when I was sixteen, from a vision in her dream of the Virgin Mary telling her to wake up the family,for we were slowly dying of carbon monoxide poisoning from the barbeque in our tent trailer.
That is when I witnessed the Oval Light and The Tormented Greys below upon my ascension.
Then I woke up standing outside, bent over and looking at the ground.
One of my favorite performers also is Julio Iglesias.
It would be a dream to sit on a beach in Ibiza with Zinfandel wine.
Thanks Paulo, and sorry for my late response in this post, as I am very busy right now in Santander since last weekend and at least until then end of this month, I´ve got loads to get done, so my posting will decline a bit until then.
Thanks again for posting, I find your posted information on so many things quite interesting/fascinating, although some of them are not strictly about Spain/Madrid as such, but good food for thought just the same.
Ciao for now.
Angelo.
Posts: 699 | Location: Santander "La Costa Verde" | Registered: 11 August 2003
- rent or buy a cell phone from me for your stay in spain, more info at 
- already have a cell phone, get a spanish SIM card for it at 
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