Hi all.

I have now been in Madrid for 8 months, and things are good, I have never tried to learn a language prior to learing Spanish and thus far it has been very tricky. However, i look back on what I have achieved so far with a sense of pride, and to be honest I have enjoyed the experience.

I find the language learning process very interesting, and i would love to hear the stages you went through, the difficulties, how long it took, other problems, tips etc....

e.g here is my Spanish language story thus far....

My high school didnt have Spanish as an option, so my first experiences of learning Spanish came from the Michelle thomas cds, they were good but my only concern is they were a bit too technical.
The other extreme is Pimsleur and i started this course 4-5 months ago... Pimsleur doesnt explain anything to you, instead it just drills the phrases into you and lets you figure out the rules/patterns as you go along.

My first major problem was learning past tense, i couldnt grasp when to use Indfinido vs impreterito. Or as i call them COMPLETE or INCOMPLETE. I still struggle occasionally, but after a lot of practice i finally managed to remember the endings and general rules.

When speaking i am thinking in english and translating into spanish, this means i am slow and i translate literally, which causes problems, but i am working on that.

When i listen i pick out the words i know and say them in my head as English, again this means that i am always 5+ seconds behind the speaker, thus causing many difficulties. I hope that with practice this will go away.

6 weeks ago i started to take lessons on a one to one basis, we have gone through Ser vs Estar, the 2 main past tenses, simple future, past participle & gerund. And i am told that in a couple of weeks i will begin Subjunctive

It sounds tricky, but i am told that it is used a lot and therefore i will need to learn it.

I remember words such as verbs by linking the sound of the verb to an english one and then creating a story or image in my head. over the weekend i learned 80 new verbs, and was tested on them yesterday and got a whopping 100% correct, which i am very proud of.

An example of my technique would be the verb "NADAR" (To swim)
Nads are an english slang word for "testicles" :y: so when i was trying to learn that word i pictured some testicles swimming across the top of a swimming pool, now i will never forget it.

Here are a few more examples, please dont think i am a nutter :lo:

MOLAR (To grind) kindof sounds like Mole and hair, therefore i imagine a guy holding a mole, and the mole has a crazy 80s haircut and the guy is grinding the hair off the head of the mole.

PEGAR (To hit/stick/glue) the word PEG in english, is something that you can hold things, e.g washing on a washing line. I imagine 2 pegs having a fight, they HIT each other and then they pull out a put of GLUE and squirt it at each other, then they get STUCK to the ground)

ROMPER (to break) In english the word ROMP is a polite way of saying to have sex, therefore i imagine 2 people ROMPing on a bed, and they do it so hard the bed BREAKS.

This works well for me, and makes the process more enjoyable. I learned 80 words in just over 90 mins of doing this technique, so it clearly works for me.

Lots of other words sound like similar words in English, so these are easy to learn.

Generally i struggle to leanr from just watching tv in spanish, i mind tends to switch off after 5-10 mins :lo:

I have also been pretty shy with regards to speaking in Spanish, once i get to a good level i wont shut up, but i have been a wimp thus far.

I would like to know how long it took you to reach the main stages of speaking spanish? what difficulties you encountered, etc........

Speak soon,

Dean.

I should also add that i am a very technical learner, i need to know exact rules and methods.

E.G when i hear something like: Te Dar�

my head thinks: "ok, well Dar = To give, and the � at the end is mmmmmm what is that � oh yeah its the future tense, and � is reffering to onesself(yo) so he is talking about himself, ok and the "Te" was at the front, so i remember that the Spanish do it the other way around, so that must mean Te is about me, so all together that means "you i will give" which translated properly means �I will give you" ah ok, i understand now.

My head does all of the above, then by the time i have figured out the word, he/she has said another couple of sentences, but i wasnt listening because i was doing all the rules.

aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhh.

Can someone please confirm that this is a normal stage that everyone goes through?

I suppose i need to get less technical and try and not translate.

hey Dean..you hit the nail on the head. Forget trying to be technical at first - my recommendation is to drink alot of beer, go to bars and party with Spaniards - and if so inclined, find yourself a little Spanish hotty to practice with!! Your Spanish will improve ten times faster than if you try to learn technically first and then plunge into social situations. You'll always be more concerned with applying the lessons you learned in class rather than simply doing your best to carry on a fluid conversation. You will eventually pick up the correct tenses just through listening and some study. (and don't forget - just like native english speakers - most spaniards have imperfect spanish so you probably don't sound as imperfect as you might think -)

I agree, I hate those two verb past tenses - they are horrible. Wait till you start learning por y para. Arghh..and using le, la, and lo correctly. Luckily, those in Madrid misuse le and la - as you will soon learn!!

Spaniards are very very understanding when communicating with foreigners - particularly in social situations. I, like you, went to Spain with "zero" spanish. I drank great gobs of beer and just chatted with Spaniards in bars. While it didn't help my grammar at all, I quickly learned the sounds, rhythm and vernacular and never once had someone make fun of me (although I know I insulted more than one person without meaning to..... I once called a waiter a "cabron" - -) :cry:

It took me about a year before I could communicate at a fluid conversational level (with boat loads of grammatical mistakes) and about three years to be able to understand everything that was being said to me.

The key is to enjoy Madrid. If you seem like you are having fun, the people around you won't be concerned about your grammar.

thanks for the reply.

Para v por i have started to learn, basically i use para in a transactional sense.

le, la , lo i also have the fundementals of this, but it can be tricky.

Your advice about finding a spanish hotty is good advice, however, i already have a spanish hotty, infact we have been together for over 2 years and a year of that she spent living in Englnd with me. However, her English is fluent, i know fluent is an overused word in languages, but her English is as good as mine and in many ways it is better

But she thinks and speaks in English, so we rarely speak in spanish to each other. I know what you are thinking... "Well stop speaking English with her and you will be forced to master it"

We have tried that, and we sat there for 3 hours and barely said a word. :lo:

on a final note i think i should add that i have been too hard on myself ref learning spanish. I presumed that living in Madrid and having a spanish girlfriend would mean that i would be speaking fluently within 6 months. It is now 8 months and i am still grasping many of the basics.

After reading some posts on here, i have read that Jer had 10 years of studying the language and was at a basic level before coming here. Also i read many posts that say 3-4 years to understand people properly.

The above takes the stress off a little as i realise that i still have plenty of time, it also makes me think that maybe it will be another 2-3 years before i can joke and converse fully with Spaniards

I look forward to hearing your stories.

Dean.

ask you fluent spanish girlfrield if she would mind if you took on a secondary non-fluent spanish girlfriend - you know "just to improve your spanish..." I'm sure she will understand!!!!! One can never have enough spanish girlfriends!!! :ks: Hey, that sounded rather philosophical, I think I should put it into prose and use it in a commercial!!!

:ks:

nice one TJ, cant see her allowing that though, nice idea though :s:

I am going to go and watch "The man with the Iron mask" i have put it on spanish and with spanish subs. Its a shame that when i press pause to read the subtitles, they disappear If there is anyway of preventing this, then please let me know.

I also have to learn the irregular past participles by tommorow, e.g Hecho, roto, dicho etc....

Back later tonight.

Take care.

deano6410, well done for taking the iniciative and starting lessons. You�ll learn so much from it grammar wise that you�ll soon feel more comfortable expressing yourself without having to worry about what goes where and when.

I have a couple of questions. Doesn�t your Spanish girlfriend have family and friends you can speak to on a regular basis in Spanish? Are there no Spaniards in your work with whom you get along with, have no English and oodles of patience to listen to you?

It�s obvious but it really is the best way to learn.

I studied Spanish for years but it wasn�t until I did the clever thing and nabbed myself a "Spanish hotty" to quote TJGuy that things started to improve. TJGuy is also right on the beer bit, if it helps you lose your inhibitions. I soon learnt that people were more interested in hearing what I was saying than hearing me say it correctly. Alcohol helped numb the embarrassing (estoy embarazada - recognise it?!) moments.

If you don�t want to become a raving alcoholic or spend all your free time speaking to your "parents-in-law" I�d recommend you start reading extensively (e.g read a news story on the BBC website in English to get the gist, then the same story on the ElMundo website in Spanish). Watch as much TV - I know it�s torture - as you can. Even if it�s just the adverts it�s amazing what you can pick up. And finally (this is not recommended in public places) have conversations with yourself out loud.

Good luck!!

hi Soooooze, thanks for the reply.

I am currently staying in the same house as Elenas parents so i do speak to them every now n then. I cant understand a word her dad says, he talks with an incredibly deep monotone voice and his sentences just sound like noise to me.

Her mum slows down and speaks at a pace that i normally understand, but other than a bit of general chat andtalk about food, we dont really talk too much.

I suppose with the Spanish tv, spanish girlfriend, living in Madrid etc... i have no excuses.

As for listening to Spanish tv and adverts etc... i dont seem to be getting anything from doing that. I just cant keep up with the pace and i suppose my head just switches off :z:

I will keep at it though.

hi deano...i'm interested in your spanish prof. i am like you. i came here with exactly one word...Hola...hard H'ing the H like in Hello. Yikes!

That was some odd years ago and I've gotten myself into a fix. I have loads of Spanish friends and often spend entire weekends surrounded by Spanish. I listen to Inaki Gabilondo and watch CSI dubbed. So, I can communicate fairly well. That is people understand me but my grammar is atrocious...and my understanding level only about 75 percent. Enough to survive, not enough to argue with Telefonica, for example.

The problem is how to break my bad habits and start incorporating grammar into my life. I can't fit regular classes into my chaotic schedule, intercambios are pointless as I have friends to chat with, studying on my own...forget it. Lazy is my middle name...so...I have decided on a private prof. But I want someone good, and someone who will dedicate our time to grammar. Your teacher sounds perfect.

Can you share?
gracias,
Candela

hi candella

My teacher is very good, and strangely enough 15 years ago he gave english lessons to my partner Elena, and now she is a fluent English. I am now being taught by him to learn spanish, he is very good, but he is expensive and he is based here in Navalcarnero (45 mins from Madrid centre)

I became fluent in Spanish in 4 years time because I worked my ASS off.

The first two years were done in the form of classes in my university and they were extremely painful. I listened to a lot of latin music to keep myself surrounded by the language because being in a group of Spanish speakers frustrated me, since I still didn't understand. Find a singer you like and you'll find yourself remembering a lot words. It's best to listen to someone who's got a political view in their songs rather than someone who just sings love songs or else you're not going to get a very wide vocabulary. My personal reccomendation is Ruben Blades - you'll learn tons of vocab from his songs.

After the painful first two years stage, I began to speak (out of obligation in class). A semester after that, I moved to Spain.

Once I began to speak, I stopped learned grammar and I stopped learning words. LISTENING is the most important way to learn at that point. Sit in a park or a cafe or something and listen to people. Write down what you think they're saying and look it up later and see if it's right. You familiarize yourself with accents and it's algo good practice for when you're confronted with a situation when you really DO need to listen.

Learn at least 10 new words a day. Carry a notebook around and write them down if you see it on an ad or in a store or wherever.

I don't reccomend reading newspapers because nobody speaks like that. I reccomend reading message boards because it's normal people expressing their feelings. Find an interest you share in common with Spaniards and sign up, even if you don't post. My level went from low intermediate to advanced within 6 months thanks to participation in message boards and chat rooms.

And finally, for pointers in language acquisition in general, I usually use the following methods to remember things:
1) Become familiar with WHY verbs are irregular rather than memorizing a list. An accented "e" usually changes to "ie" and an accented "o" usually changes to "ue." If you keep that in mind instad of just the word "tener" or "poder," you're less likely to mis-conjugate "retener" and "soler," which aren't usually on a Spanish I verb list.

2) Immitate phrases rather than translate from English. If someone says something to you in a certain circumstance, don't remember the circumstance and how you translated it in your head. Try and remember the exact phrasing they used and whether they were speaking normally, sarcastically, in anger, etc.

3) Buy a picture dictionary and if you have a spanish friend, ask them to go through and make sure the words are all correct.

And as the linguistics major in me comes out....

4) Once you feel you can communicate, TAKE A PHONETICS COURSE. It may seem pointless to be learning about fricatives, alveolars, etc, but trust me, once you learn where the sounds are articulated and how the phonological distribution works in the language, your accent will improve greatly (as long as you struggle to apply it)

5) And last but not least... If you have Spanish friends who are at a beginning or intermediate level of English, pay LOTS of attention to the errors they make when speaking English. They're usually just translating it from Spanish in their heads and as a beginner you can learn more about the structure of Spanish via their mistakes than you'd probably learn from a textbook.


Melinda

I can't emphasize enough the importance of reading in Spanish DAILY. (do I always do it? no, but when I do I see the effects immediately). I mean reading books.

Get a novel from Casa del Libro (I still read translated authors I like, because they are generally easier to read) and read at least a few pages every day. Don't stop to look up every word. Just keep reading and getting the idea of what's going on. You will figure out new vocabulary, hear it in context, and what I found most amazing is the number of times I saw something I heard that day or something I've wanted to know in action, in a story. Major, major reinforcement!

It's also extremely effective to carry a notebook around with you to record new words and any questions you have. So often we think, "I wonder how you say..." and later we've forgotten. If we had a list to follow up on...

I agree it takes years to master. But the process is so much of the fun, and as it becomes clearer in our heads, the feeling of satisfaction in communicating become soooo sweet!

I'm 1 year 9 months into the process and I feel great about where I am, even though I still have days where I know I make no Spanish sense at all.

PS, don't be afraid of the subjunctive. Fear will get in your way. It is so important that once you know it, you won't believe you weren't using it before. Not that I have it mastered, but I did realize what a spanish prof of mine said to me once: imagine someone speaking to you using the wrong verb tense all the time (happens to us often when the Spaniards speak to us in English, right?). We understand them, and it doesn't bother us, but we certainly hear the error. That's exactly how we sound to them when we don't use the subjunctive properly. They don't mind, and they know it's hard for us. But it's incorrect. So there's motivation to improve, without guilt. :-)

Having a Spanish girlfriend definately helps, but you need to push her. In my experience Spanish girls have great resistance to speaking in Spanish with you (that is if they are fluent in English or any other language). I know this because of my (now ex-) girlfriend, but also from friends and colleages that have Spanish girlfriends here in Madrid.

You really need to answer to all her questions in Spanish and pretend you have suddenly forgotten all English (or whatever your native language is). And then when you have something to say, just do it in Spanish. Most of you have been some time in Madrid/Spain anyway, so you have heard radio, tv, people speak etc... That means that subconsiously you have stored this info, and it is latently there. You now only need to free that potential. JUST SPEAK MAN!

Then when doing that, watch loads of DVDs, in SPANISH with SPANISH subtitles. Yes this takes some getting used to, but it works. Read books in SPANISH, preferrably books that you have already read and that you really like.

And then step three, the final step, when you are already speaking to spanish people, understand all and can defend yourself on the phone with telefonica, then... Get a grammar book, I recommend "Repaso: A Complete Review Workbook for Grammar, Communication, and Culture": REPASO

And just watch it all fall in place, the pleasure of it is a post orgasmic chill. You realise that by speaking and reading and doing all the things mentioned above you have been using the subjunctive tense and imperative and all those confusing past tenses. And you will be proud.

And in case you don�t have a girlfriend, now you will now be able to chat up random Spanish girls and make neat little compliments about their eyes, dress, whatever... and they will give you their telefone number begging you (good looking, good spanish speaking exotic foreigner) to call them. Enjoy Madrid.

some great information on here.

What is the fastest you have seen someone learn a decent level of Spanish? I have heard stories of people living here for 3 months and being able to communicate at a decent level :lo:

Today i had a 2 hour lesson, i was tested on the Past participle and gerund of over 80 verbs I did ok, there are a few irregular ones that catch me out,such as:

Huir,
caer,
sentir,
elegir,
romper and a few others, but thankfully once you have learned Visto, hecho, dicho, roto & oculto.... the others tend to be regular.

I have tons of new words to learn for next wednesday, so will probably aim to do 15 a day.

I will update as i go along, and maybe this thread will one day be of help to someone.

Hasta luego.