Need some help navigating lo, le, and el masculine pronouns. I am "street" fluent, having lived in Madrid for four years, but I never learned in a classroom. So, my grammar is lacking.

I have a multitude of books but I haven't found a few rules of thumb as to when to use lo versus le?

Thanks.

TJGUY

try this grammar site and scroll down to numbers 41-46 to see the explanations.
see if that helps.

Thanks Marcela! That site helps me lots!

my favorite grammar site and another really good site are two that I always recommend to my students...buena suerte

Hi guys, thanks for the direction. I tried to find a specific example of what gets me confused but haven't been able to find one..........so here is a made up example...

"He hablado con Juan, he le dije que......." Le being the masculine pronoun referring to Juan...LO would not be used in that instance ( i think).

OR one I am using to ask natural Spanish speakers in the U.S.A. (educated in Spanish (Chilean, Argentine....)) is

"Que es eso en la mesa?"
"Es un boligrafo"
"Pues, prestamelo, por favor"
"Que no escribe, le hace falta tinta"

They have all agreed that the use of "lo" and "le" are correct but they cannot explain why, in once instance, "lo" is used to refer to the pen and the next "le" is used - both being masculine pronouns.

Thanks for the help guys....I have yet to find anything or anyone that can explain the application of lo and le.

"le dije que...." In this instance I told him (something). The "something" would be the direct object and the him the indirect object. Leave off the "he", by the way. In the command "pr�stamelo", the pen is the direct object, the thing lent, and the "me" is the person to whom it is lent, so the indirect object. "Lend me it" or, "Lend it to me".
In the "le hace falta tinta", as in any "hacer falta" useage, you need to think of the "lack"(in this case, ink) and then the object or person who "lacks"(in this case, the pen) Literally, this is translated "to him (the pen)makes lack ink"(Don'tcha just love grammar?!)

Sue, EXCELLENT explanation, took the word right out of my keyboard

It really just is a direct/indirect object thang!!!

Saludos,
jer...

Sue, you're right, it's all about the direct/indirect object. We use "le" for indirect and "lo"(masculine) and "la" (feminine) for direct objects.
The explanation Spaniards receive at school is that a pronoun is direct when if you turn the sentence into passive voice it becomes the subject.

"Yo com� pan" "Yo LO com�" "El pan fue comido (por mi)" So, it's direct.

"Yo compro flores a Pepe" "Yo LE compro flores" "Las flores son compradas para Pepe" Indirect.

Beware that it's also accepted to use "le" instead of "lo" when refering to male people in singular. "Yo vi a Juan" "Yo LE vi" (more used) or "Yo LO v�" (less common). In passive "Juan fue visto", so it's direct.

Anyway, even native Spaniards make mistakes with this, especially North Castilians and sometimes Madrile�os too.

Hi,

maybe this explanation helps to clear up the "le" and "lo" as well:

You use "lo" in the case of accusative; and "le" in the case of "dative".

for me it's easier to remember it this way, because in school we never used the terms of direct or indirect objects, when learning foreign languages, but always the different cases, like nominative, genitive, dative and accusative.

Kinki,

Please clear up what is meant by DATIVE and ACCUSATIVE. Not everyone knows these terms. These terms are normally associated with LATIN and not SPANISH and in depends on which country you are from.

Thanks,

Shawn

Sorry, you are right, they are originally from latin.

But I thought that every grammar has its cases and that these terms are used in general for explaining grammar, because latin is the "mother of languages", at least of the roman languages, which include spanish.

Unfortunately Kinki, this is not the case. Back in the day, people used those terms for explaining grammar, but now many use the actual name that the word functions as in the language, so, still waiting for that explanation.

Shawn

I'm with Shawn. An explanation would be helpful. I have no idea what dative and accusative are...

Anne

Well, I'll try the explanation.

But I'm not sure if I can do it well, because I'm no teacher.

Well, basically there are four "cases" (I don't know if this is the exact english term, but I don't know a better one) in many languages, although latin had six cases, but this doesn't matter.

I think spanish has also four cases, which are "nominative", "genitive", "dative" and "accusative" (again I'm not sure if these are the right terms in english).

To make it clearer, here is one (maybe stupid example:

"(Yo) doy el regalo de mi madre a mi hermano."

Nominative is "yo", the person who is doing something.
Genitive is "de mi madre", or whose present we are talking about.
Dative is "a mi hermano", or whom I'm giving it.
And accusative is "el regalo", or the thing what I'm giving.

And with "lo" and "le" it's the same: "Le doy el regalo".
"Le" is dative, because it stands for the person whom I'm giving it.

"Lo doy a mi hermano". "Lo" is accusative, because it substitutes the thing I'm giving.

Does this make any sense? At least that's the way I learned the grammar of latin, french, and english, and now spanish.

I hope that it's a bit clearer now

Saludos,
Kathrin

Yes, that explains it I think. But I think I'll just stick with direct and indirect object.

Anne