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Posted Hide Post
Excellent Guys! Thanks alot...Kinki, you're a little scarey...you know just a LITTLE TOO MUCH grammar! Smiler

Funny how books don't break it down so simply. Stay tuned to this station, I'll have more questions. I'm really hitting the grammar hard and am quite depressed to learn all the mistakes I have been making over the years.

Nos. vemos!!!


y desde el club de los humildes rescatar aquellos besos que he tirado sin amar
 
Posts: 308 | Location: Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: 17 August 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
Hi BKelly,

my old latin teacher would be happy to hear that I know too much grammar... Smiler

Well, in school it was really hard and I hated it, 5 years of learning latin!
But once you get it, it's really easier to learn other languages, because they have all the same system. (the western european ones, I'm not speaking about some exotic languages).

Hasta pronto y salu2,
Kathrin
 
Posts: 80 | Location: Madrid (original Munich) | Registered: 15 January 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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OK guys...here is another pronoun one...I work in a place that seems like the U.N. at times, a dozen different languages. One woman was speaking to another woman, using formal "Ud".

She said, "....no se que decirle, no se que han hecho....." Where did the "le" come from? The woman who works with me is Argentine and well educated and insists that "le" should be used even though it is masculine and the woman was referring to another woman. What on earth happened to "la"?


y desde el club de los humildes rescatar aquellos besos que he tirado sin amar
 
Posts: 308 | Location: Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: 17 August 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
jer
"the man!"
Picture of jer
Posted Hide Post
Hey bkelley, it is correct to use "le" as it is the indirect object pronoun (for both men and women).

"La" would be a direct object pronoun and can not be used as that sentence requires the indirect object pronoun.

Same if there was more than one woman, it would have to be "....no s� qu� decirles, no s� qu� han hecho.....".

That is why it is easier to think of these constructions in terms of direct and indirect objects.

Saludos,
jer...


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Posts: 12232 | Location: ny, u.s.a. --> madrid, spain --> the plaza mayor ! | Registered: 30 June 1998Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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just to complicate the issue a bit more, let me add the topic of Le�smo, La�smo and Lo�smo as I recently attended a class where it was a very discussed topic. Here is what I read about most recently...Interesting to note was that Cervantes was a le�sta... Roll Eyes
Le�smo, la�smo y lo�smo


Veamos el uso normativo de este punto seg�n la Real Academia Espa�ola, que se basa en su origen etimol�gico:

Complemento directo
Complemento indirecto
Singular
lo
la
le (se)

Plural
los
las
les (se)


Pero esta sencilla clasificaci�n te�rica no resulta tan f�cil en la pr�ctica. Hemos de tener en cuenta que en Madrid y otras zonas del centro peninsular los errores en el uso de los pronombres �tonos son muy frecuentes, y que de ah� han pasado tambi�n a ser frecuentes en muchos de nuestros medios de comunicaci�n.

1. LE�SMO

Se denomina le�smo al fen�meno de utilizar los pronombres �tonos le y les cuando lo correcto ser�a lo y los o la y las.

Al caballo le mataron despu�s de la carrera.

Deber�a decirse:

Al caballo lo mataron despu�s de la carrera.

ya que el pronombre �tono hace la funci�n de complemento directo.

El uso generalizado del uso de le como complemento directo cuando se refiere a un nombre masculino ha terminado por ser admitido por la Real Academia Espa�ola, y el uso ha venido a matizar un tanto la norma anterior. De esta manera, son correctos:

A Juan lo encontr� en la puerta del cine.
A Juan le encontr� en la puerta del cine.

Pero no si se refiere a un nombre femenino:

A In�s la encontr� a la puerta del cine

As�, ser�a incorrecto decir:

A In�s le encontr� a la puerta del cine.

2. LA�SMO

El la�smo, por su parte, consiste en la utilizaci�n de los pronombres �tonos la y las en lugar de le y les como complemento indirecto. El hablante, de este modo, se siente en la obligaci�n de marcar el g�nero del referente.

A In�s la gusta mucho ir al cine.

Deber�a decirse, ya que se trata de un complemento indirecto:

A In�s le gusta ir al cine.

3. LO�SMO

Por su parte, el lo�smo consiste en la utilizaci�n de lo y los en lugar de los pronombre �tonos de complemento indirecto: le y les. De los tres fen�menos rese�ados, es el que se considera m�s vulgar.

A Juan lo ofrecieron trabajo la semana pasada.

Lo correcto ser�a:

A Juan le ofrecieron trabajo la semana pasada.

this is from this web page
 
Posts: 146 | Location: New York City | Registered: 29 June 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
Thanks, guys. You all really rock....C U soon.


y desde el club de los humildes rescatar aquellos besos que he tirado sin amar
 
Posts: 308 | Location: Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: 17 August 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Marcela these are really good sites. Thanks for posting.
 
Posts: 32 | Location: West Los Angeles, CA, USA | Registered: 25 December 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
originally posted by kinki:

I think spanish has also four cases, which are "nominative", "genitive", "dative" and "accusative" (again I'm not sure if these are the right terms in english).

Well, actually no romance language has cases anymore: they've been "abolished" with the introduction of the "Complementi" (I don't know the name in Spanish, but I think it's very similar to the Italian I wrote). Smiler

Anyway I can understand what you mean with "4 cases in Spanish" Wink :cheers:


El camino hacia el éxito es largo, recórrelo con nosotros...<br />HALA MADRID !
 
Posts: 69 | Location: Milan, Italy | Registered: 30 November 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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