Okay, Redwood, this is about your signature quote, not "pure" language. Where is it from? At the moment, all of the fields around are covered with snow. However, I am dreaming about warmer climes. Tell me more about PR. A private message is okay so as not to offend the Spaniards

quote:

Tell me more about PR. A private message is okay so as not to offend the Spaniards

Not to mention throwing this thread WAY off topic

PM baaaaabaaayyyy, PM is the key here (unless Shawn wants to start a new thread on Puerto Rico ).

Saludos,
jer...

Actually Jer, this post really didn't get off of the topic. Look at how it changed. We started off with the Argentinian accent and then we moved into accents in general, while still staying on the topic of Spain. It's hard for these conversations not to veer into related topics. I will try and stay on TOPIC next time.

Thanks for not sending me a nasty private message or editing any of my post like some people would've.

See you in the chat . . .

Shawn

Hey Shawn.

I did not say it got off topic at all, just that it WOULD if we began to talk about Puerto Rico itself as Sue wanted you to do.

As long as it stays on PR Spanish or other country's pronunciation it should be cool but info on the Island itself (history, geography, etc...) would move away from the language related topic of this thread.

Sorry I was not clearer on that.

Saludos,
jer...

Okay. Without going into accents, purities or which country's is better. I have to say from a scholastic point of view that when you are interested in studying a language, especially in anticipation of going to that country, that you should opt for the one closest to the root. The one that all of the other ones are derived from or variations of. Not pure. Not better or worse.
I am American. If I were a foreigner and want to do business I would study American English. If I want to study English from a scholastic point of view I would study the Queen's English from the UK. Once you know the root of any language it is a lot more fun and easier to learn all of the other variations.
Next. I lived in Puerto Rico for 9 years and know the Spanish that is taught there. The Spanish in school is very good and close to the Castillian taught in Spain, with the exception of a lot of the same words with extra or different meaninings. The one on the street is a mix between Castellano, and English items pronounced with a Spanish accent as well as a few Taino words left over from the original inhabitants.
It is a very nice place to live or visit.

Next. Jer... My nose is bleeding... :l:
I am guilty of editing my posts
Cheers.
Rocco.

Rocco,

Excellent response, BUT . . . .

I would have to disagree when you say that Spanish spoken on the street is a mixture of CASTELLANO and English.

Think about it, when you say this, without specifying, you are indeed saying that ALL Puerto Ricans speak Spanglish. Is that what you are trying to say or are you confusing some Puerto Ricans from New York who often visit the island and speak Spanglish. Please clarify. I've met many Puerto Ricans that can't stand to hear someone speaking Spanglish.

Think about it. Spanglish does serve a purpose. When you are hangin' out wit ya boys or talking to family members, but when it is time to give a lecture or a presentation, Spaniglish won;t do you any good.

Thanks,

Shawn

Shawn (Redwood).

What I am saying is that Puerto Rico, which is a common wealth nation and unofficial 51st state, has been under the US influence for so long now with all of the same products, marketing, and yes New Yoricans going back and forth from America that the language now contains a lot of Spangilsh in it. The list of accepted words that are in English said with a Spanish accent grows day by day with more and more English words being added as familiarity with new products are introduced into that market increases.
Also, the bigger and more important thing to know is the additional or other meanings of words you think you know in Castillian Spanish in Puerto Rican Spanish. For example: Mu�equitos means cartoons and not little dolls. Pato means gay not just the bird. Chura means diariah and not the male member. The list goes on and on, but unfortunately I mostly remember the dirty stuff, so I will not post it. But I am willing to go head to head with Shawn on another thread in a brain bowl about Puerto Rico and explain more about it and the language if anyone is interested.
Cheers.
Rocco.

Interesting response Rocco, but you failed to answer the question. I will leave it with you having the last word.

I don't go head to head with anyone about how much knowledge that I have in a particular subject area because the knowledge that I have, I don't have to prove to anyone.

The things that you have written, I have already learned in my linguistic classes at UPR, so it's a review of information for me.

I will bow out gracefully, but please continue this discussion with others, but I will not be a participant.

Suerte,

Shawn

Shawn (Redwood). You misunderstood what I was saying. I am not threatening you. I am inviting you to help me discuscuss all of the wonderful things that we both remember about Puerto Rico on another thread for the benefit of anyone who wants to hear more about it.
I was not challenging you. Even though you do get a little esoterical at times and are a little... actually a lot more positive than I am, your point of view is very important and benefitial to all of the board members.
Now to answer your question. Yes. By default, eventhough they are taught a more proper Spanish in school all Puerto Ricans speak some Spanglish. Some speak in a more refined and dignified manner, but use the same English words that have been adopted into the Spanish language when talking about things. "Compute" instead of ordenador. "Liter" instead of mechero. "Mapo" instead of fregona.
Rocco.

Getting back to the Argentine accent---where did that come from, anyway? I've heard it said that there are more Italian names in the BA phonebook than Spanish, but I don't associate that "zh" sound with Italian at all. The only places I have often heard it in SPAIN is when some folks pronounce "yo" as "zho" and also when saying the name of the artist Goya. Perhaps gallego also incorporates that sound, being so close to Portugal? How about catal�n, being so close to proven�al French?? Would that explain the accent, which, by the way, I don't mind one little bit, my first U of M prof having been uruguayo(uruguaizho)

quote:

originally posted by Redwood:
[qb] People still think I'm Cuban when I speak Spanish, [/qb]

Oh my gosh, I thought it was just me!
I took it as a huge compliment when someone in a bar in Denia asked me if I was a Cubana, (they actually thought I was a native speaker, until I said something like "Me love dogs to play but they much smell bad"). :jeje:
I guess a Cuban accent is a lot like an American one?

:jeje:
Well, Mermaid, as a Cubanita myself,I can tell you why. Cuban women are good looking women who are full of life as apparently you must be!

So probably the allusion was to your looks and not your language.

In all seriousness, yes you are quite correct,the allusion that Cubans are to Spain as Americans are to England is quite correct. Up until 1898 Cuba was an important part of Spain, and a territory the Spanish hated to lose.

We lack the Castellian's famous accent because 90 % of the Spanish immigrants that settled Cuba up to the mid-20th century were from Galicia, Asturias, and the Canary Islands. Havana has the Centro Gallego and Asturiano that provided a lot of social interaction between the immigrants and the rest of the island folk, preserving customs like the Loteria!

I believe that other Cubans would agree with me when I say that in school we were taught the King's Spanish, but we spoke without what we considered the "lisping" accent, we spoke plainly, much like the Americans speak plainly without the British drawl. Educated Cubans speak Spanish grammatically correct, but without the Castillian accent

Cubans did not have "Spanglish" until they came to the U.S. and found this peculiar way of taking anglo-saxon words and converting them into Spanish words by adding Spanish verb endings, male or female endings, etc :jeje: .

Lazy speaking Cubans, much like lazy speaking members of other languages, speak badly! :jeje:
But hey, they're happy! :cheers:

I was told by a waiter in Mexico that my accent sounded Argentinian. I was so please I gave him a big tip . . . but now I'm confused - should I have Bobbitt-ed him instead?

And by the way, do not confuse Queen's English with real English - have you heard the way she talks? This is a woman who obviously thinks "sex" is something the potatoes come in . . .

:ks: to you all

Argentina had a heck of a lot of Italian immigrants, which would explain the surnames, and to me anyway, the rather-Italianate cadence in their manner of speaking.

Booklady, don't you mean "English" (post-1066)words rather than "anglo saxon" (pre-1066) words? I'm glad the Normans won the battle of Hastings. We think English is a difficult language, can you imagine what it would be like without all the Latin-based words?

Paul, you are right, I should have said both. I meant anglo-saxon derived words were the troublesome words. But we also did damage to the regular modern English words.


Fortunately, what we now know as modern English (excuse me Liz, the Queen's English, what!)has a lot if latin and French words,about 45%, thanks as you said to those wily Normans. So it was easy for us to learn words ike "idea," "detail, " etc. because they were linguistically nearer to Spanish speakers, since they come from the same branch.

Anyway, I will have you know that I am not a "lazy Cuban" and do not use Spanglish! Humbug!

I love language, and have come to truly appreciate the way people in different regions speak, whether in Spain or IberoAmerica.

Adieu! Goodby! Adios! (See what I mean) :jeje: