Last year I spent it in BCUC which is a British Uni not very far away from London. The campus was small and there were quite a few foreigners. This helped me discover that even with the closest countries, there are many cultural differences that can be difficult to understand. A few English friends told me that Spanish are a bit touchy-feely when speaking and that it can even be a bit unconfortable for them. I even found many differences with our neighbour countries like France or Italy. So my question is, what is the most difficult cultural bit to understand for a foreigner of the Spanish culture? I would also like to know because my boyfriend is English and I don't want misunderstandings! :lo:

Hi Aidah --

Great topic! I have to tell you, what I still ocassionally have difficulty with is the directness of the Spanish language.

I am fluent in Spanish and am married to a Spaniard who doesn't have a high level of English. So naturally, all of our communication is in Spanish. However, I still have difficulty (not grammatically speaking but rather, intellectually) using the imperative form when I ask my husband to do something, or vice versa.

I still have the tendency to say something like �me podr�as hacer un caf�, por favor? instead of "h�zme un caf�, por favor." He finds it amusing that I occasionally speak that way. However for me, I can't help but feel put off when he speaks to me like that. I know I shouldn't because it's merely the way things are expressed here in Spain.

Initially, it was a cause of some disagreements and/or misunderstandings. I don't know if your boyfriend speaks Spanish, or if he does, to what level... but it is something that you might want to be aware of!

Chica, my Spanish isn't fluent but I agree with you totally re: the directness of Spaniards/the Spanish language. Being involved in the flamenco scene in the UK I spend most of my time with Spaniards (speaking English) and it took me ages to realise that what I sometimes took for rudeness was just their English translations of the imperative form. I also eventaully worked out that the English way of saying no (i.e not saying no directly) did not make sense to them at all. I still find great difficulty not saying 'please' every five seconds when ordering a coffee in the Puerta del Sol! Karenanne

That is very interesting! I know the imperative can sound a bit rude, especially if someone is not used to having it in his/her mother tongue. My boyfriend will start with his Spanish next year. Now he is studying Italian and I remember him saying he didn't like using that verb tense. I consider myself quite polite but I remember my boyfriend saying that my level of politeness is a bit "average" in the UK At first, I didn't understand what I was doing wrong, but then I realised that some literal translations are not interpreted in the same way :b:
Thanks girls!

Yeah, this is one of the many things.

Someone wants you to come over to where they are.

Ven! // Come!

Is the Spanish with the English translation.

I think most of us would say in English:

Can you come over here please!?!

It's even somewhat confused whether it is an order ( ! ) or a question ( ? )

Trans into Spanish that is something like (my esp. is awful):

?Puedes venir aqui por favor?

Which is clearly a question. Perhaps part of tehe reason is the oddity of Poder being translated as Can and To be able.

'Can you come over here!' is a demand whereas 'Are you able to come over here?' is a question.

I'm now more confused

x

Hi Aidah

I am English and my wife is Spanish. I would say that there are all sorts of potential obstacles to understanding between any two cultures but with two tolerant and reasonably smart people (I exclude myself from that group!) I have yet to find any that can't be bridged. So what differences are there? Indulge me as I wax philosophical for a while!

Perhaps one area where we differ is what I perceive as an intrinsic conservatism on the part of Spanish people. Or maybe I should express that as a native insecurity on the part of the British! I find in the Spanish I know a certain resistance to change. I don't want to say that all British people enthusiastically embrace change - they certainly don't. But as a nation I find the British nowadays have more appetite for change. This has consequences for both countries.

My wife has explained that most people in Spain grow up in the same neigbourhood as their families have lived in for years. They'll go to the same school throughout childhood, with the same group of friends. They live with their parents after school. They tend to find themselves a job, and stay there for years and years. I have seen this with her family. They are middle class people who I would have imagined would be more flexible and adaptable, moving to where the work is and so on. But no - they like what they know and stick with it, finding change fearful and to be avoided. My wife is the exception that proves the rule! Well - almost. I'd have to say I think she finds change difficult but she has an unusually adventurous spirit and came to the UK alone 10 years ago. But she hasn't always found it easy to adapt.

British people, conversely, move around a lot. Their parents will often have moved home several times during their childhood, dragging their kids with them to new schools and new sets of friends while they themselves fit into new jobs. Most of my friends and I effectively left home at 18 when we left school. We have all done umpteen different jobs, and lived in countless different places! Instability, uncertainty, change is endemic. I seriously cannot imagine staying in the same area all my life. I think this would be true of a large percentage of today's generation in Britain.

Consequently I think Spanish people grow up more secure in themselves, generally quite confident, knowing that they have mastered their own universe. Most of the Brits I know seem to harbour deep insecurities about themselves and their place in this world. But they are also more adventurous and risk-taking, making them more entrepreneurial. (Please note that I don't think it makes them better people!!). I think the British have lost their sense of identity as we have left many traditinal aspects of our culture behind. The Spanish seem to generally value, cherish, celebrate and protect their traditions. On the positive I believe that in the UK we have one of the most vibrantly creative and innovative cultures in the World today. These are just a few of what I believe are the consequences of these patterns of behaviour. There are many more I could go into!

None of these things are absolutes - I know plenty of examples, even in my own family that contradict any stereotyping using these supposedly national characteristics. There is much to learn from each other. I intend no offence to anyone - these are simply observations based upon my own experience - not necessarily typical. This is only my opinion - I am sure there will be some people who will agree and plenty of others who disagree vehemently!! Bring'em on!!

Thought I might add, that I'd say:

"�Me haces un caf�, cari�o?"

Just like I'd say, in a bar,

"�Me pones un caf� con leche?" (sometimes adding..."cuando puedas")

I don't think I usually use the imperative with my chico, but in a bar I might, with a polite smile and tone of voice ("ponme una ca�a, cuando puedas")

K.

MarkE, great post! I don't agree with your conclusions (reluctancy to change in general coming from Spanish fondness to live in one place), but I think the facts you mention are a clear picture of Spanish reality. Keeping this in mind, and just to bring a couple of more comments to this: we like to live in just one place all our lives, but this not the case for almost all of us - you may check this asking for the family origin of anybody in Madrid. You won't hardly meet anybody whose both parents are from Madrid. And not only people moved inside the country, but abroad (both to Latin America and Europe - the latter mainly in the 60s).

It might be of some help for this subject reading the first part of "Hommage to Catalonia", by George Orwell - the second part is quite political, but the first is mainly a portrait of Catalonia and Spain and their people during the Spanish Civil War, with plenty of comparisons between Spanish and British characters.

one thing that was tough to get my brain around here (and still is) is the way that the spanish use that annoying and rude (to me anyway) "tssssssttt tsssssstttt" sound to get someones attention. it is produced by putting one's tong on the palat and slightly pushing air out of the mouth cavity.

it is next to impossible to express this noise in writing bit those of you who have been here a while know what i mean.

to this day whenever i hear it, i look around to see where the dog is and who is calling it :jeje:

saludos,
jer...

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH MARK-E AND JER. I�M SPANISH BUT NEVER ADRESS A WAITER BY TSSSSSSSING HIM/HER WHICH IS AWFUL INDEED. INSTEAD ALWAYS BIDE GOOD MORNING AND PLEASE ALTOGETHER. BY THE WAY MY WIFE ASK ME "ANDA, HAZME UN CAF� COMO SOLO TU SABES HACERLO, CARI�O" IN A CAJOLING WAY. SALUDOS

Working with children quite a lot*, I have noticed that "por favor" isn't used to be polite, but to show desperation.

I'll give you an example. We were taking the children** to Tarifa

Children: "We want go shopping"
Me: "You can't"
Children "POOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRR FAVOOOOOOOOOORRRR"

In no way are the children adding 'por favor' to mean "oops, we weren't polite enough before, maybe if we add a polite please they will agree" its more "maybe if we sound really desperate they'll agree."

Moral: don't wish the Spanish would use 'por favor' more - even if they used it more, it wouldn't mean they were being any more polite.


*quite a lot = too much
**children = horrible little ****s

Cervantes

If Spanish wasn't difficult enough with all its synonyms and verb tenses, you also need to know all the different interpretations to the million and one sounds that we have :jeje:

And again we can see that literal translations are no good! Even with something as simple and basic as "por favor"

About "por favor" and kids...

As dutiful American parents, we've been drilling "please" and "thank you" into Oscar's brain since he was a year old. In fact, "thank you" was one of his first utterances.

A couple of weeks ago, Christian was picking Oscar up from school and talking to his teacher and Oscar was interrupting and demanding something in--what we would perceive as--an obnoxious way. Christian stopped talking to the teacher and told Oscar to say "por favor." Of course, Oscar did so and got whatever it was that he wanted. The teachers all thought it was hilarious and "muy Americano."

They said that kids here are never expected to say please and thank you when they are three years old, because they can't really understand those concepts anyway. Which made me think about our obsession with politeness, because I'm sure they are right--it's definitely more of a pavlovian thing when they are this little.

In fact, I wonder, do we ever really mean it? Are we really being polite or is all this just a culturally conditioned response? For me, "please" and "thank you" and "excuse me" and "I'm sorry" are buried so deep in my subconscious that I don't even know that I'm going to say them until they are already uttered...

During the morning rush hour on the metro, I have to make a conscious effort not to say "I'm sorry" a million times, because there are just so many little indignities.

And has anyone noticed how being overly polite almost irritates or embarrasses Spanish people. Many say "nada" in response and make a little brushing motion with their hand (usually the left hand, I think) as if they are sweeping a bug off their shoulder.

I completely agree: many times, I have heard Spaniards complaining about Engish and Americans... "why do they say "please" or "thank you" if they do not mean it?" As I've been working too long for English or American companies (even with mostly Spanish colleagues), my friends usually had fun at me when I used "por favor" more often than them ("gracias" was not so funny, even if I said it more often than them: there was always a reason for it, so no problem about that). Some times it is more about the intonation or the attitude (you don't have to say "thank you" if you remember it, and give back at the appropiate time).

O I G A :z: bring me my coffee