Wow Redwood- I was just being realistic. I'm a very money cautious person and yes, you're looking at studio prices for the summer- when rental prices come down because those apts are left open during those months. I'm not saying that its not possible to find an apt for that much- just that it may be difficult. I'm a person that likes to caution to the higher side (rent, food etc. ) so I don't get a shock.

If you want to eat beans and rice and are happy with that, then kudos for you. I'm not going to knock it. Just like I think Sedusa is going on the high side- at least for the money conscious person- but just like you said- to each his/her own.

I don't doubt you or anyone else will learn to manage the Euro- myself included- I will say however, that inflation and cost of living, in addition to the Rondeo of the Euro- has gone up. And I also believe its safe to say its not the same as living with the Peseta because of the changes. I also think that anyone going to Spain expecting to make the same money they do in the US (note: I'm not saying that you do, but there are people out there) have really high expectations and are being unrealistic. They may achieve it, but maybe not, and you can't eat with a maybe.

I'm just giving my opinion- you can disagree- that's your perogative. I'm only trying to be helpful. Good luck.

Wow! I go to work and there are a million replies. Sweet! Thanks for the tips, they're all great! If 1000 euros a month is pija, then I'm good to go. I've actually taken all the money I will have and calculated it to euros, so I'm already thinking in actual spain terms. I know how much my rent is, so thats good. Espe3, I did exactly what you said and went to the corte ingles website to get a cushioned idea on what I would spend. Chica, I definitely plan on buying the monthly metro pass. I've already calculated that into the expenses. Good call! Thanks again for the info! I can't wait to meet everyone in September!

Oh how I agree, espe3, about the cost of living rising!!! I hadn�t commented before, as the prices in the Canaries probably are very different to Madrid. However, I have noticed this past six months especially that supermarket prices in Euros are what they were in pesetas previously This has been a very gradual rounding up so as not to frighten us I think!! My favourite wine was 360pts, is now 3,60�. Chicken breast 850pts now 8,50�, lettuce 100pts now 1� etc etc.

Menus del dia don�t feature much here on Lanzarote but as I work at the airport I have a canteen pass. The menu there was 421pts - guess what it is now 4,21� . Still good value for money I suppose and I try to eat there as much as possible. On that basis, amapola, your 30� a week on groceries, would give me one menu per day and no money over!!!!

To help keep things in perspective here, 1000� a month is an average salary for the Spaniards, and they do manage quite fine...However, there are those who are a little too optimistic in their spending and have difficulty making it to the end of the month.

With that said, if you are really really concerned about saving money, look where you greatest expense is and seek a way to reduce it. What I am referring to is your monthly rent. Many of you find the monthly rent expensive(relatively speaking), but that is because you are insisting in living in the dead center of the city. Let�s face it, not all of us can be like Jer and get a sweet deal on a flat overlooking the Plaza Mayor.

If you are planning to work here, particuarly teaching English, your work will most likely not be in the dead center of the city. So you will be traveling quite a bit on public transport to get to where you have to go. I am sure there are English teachers on this board who can testify to that.

The metro costs the same to ride whether you make one connection or several...so, I would consider moving into a "lower rent" district and suck it up to a slightly longer metro ride.

To give you an idea, I live in the Plaza Castilla/Valdeacederas area which is north central, just off one of the main business districts (north of Santiago Bernabeu Stadium). It is exactly a 15 minute metro ride to Plaza de Sol with no connections. My monthly rent for a one bedroom (plus kitchen, living room and bathroom), very sunny flat is cheaper than the cheapest rent that Redwood found for a studio. The best of all is that I don�t share it with anyone except for my beloved Chico.

As was said before, it�s all subjective and really depends on what you are willing to "give up". I was willing to give up a gorgeous spacious flat in the center of the city for a couple of hundred additional Euros in my pocket that will eventually go towards the land that we plan to buy and the house we plan to build.

Perhaps something else to think about as you plan your move here.

Espe3,

quote:

I'm just giving my opinion- you can disagree- that's your perogative. I'm only trying to be helpful. Good luck.

Just because we don't agree doesn't mean that there can't be a healthy dialogue. I already knew that it was my perogative to disagree and that's the beauty of life. People don't have to agree, especially when it comes to financial concerns.

You see, Espe3, I come from a part-time job and have to make my pennies stretch. The few full-time jobs that I have had haven't worked out at all and I have to get by on what little that they pay me at the community college. That's why I've said that I can survive on 800.00 US per month because I basically have to do that here.

quote:

If you want to eat beans and rice and are happy with that, then kudos for you.

I find it rather interesting the way that you have withered my food list just to beans and rice. Nowhere in my list do I just focus on beans and rice. I know how to live cheaply and I know how to eat healthly with little money.

quote:

I was just being realistic.

You see, I don't get wrapped into this entire way of overinflating a budget just to be on the safe side. I know what MY LIMITS are because I know how much I AM COMING OVER WITH and I know MY LIFESYTLE.

Being African-American and with my family situation and upbringing, I think different about money. If it ain't there, it ain't there. This is to say that keeping a roof over my head and food in my stomach is more important than going out all of the time or having expensive tastes.

quote:

And I also believe its safe to say its not the same as living with the Peseta because of the changes.

This I already know. If you go back and read my statement, "I learned how to manage the PESETA and know how to manage an EURO.", this does not imply that I don't know about inflation and CHANGES. I saw the price of things when I was there last year and this year and have witnessed, first hand, how many essential items, such as food, have gone up.

quote:

you can't eat with a maybe

Honey, I have seen my mother feed us, a famly of 4, with less than this. You see, I grew up in the projects and times were tight. So, I learned at a very early age, how to pinch a penny and make food last and stretch out that food over several meals.

You see, I am a man of humble beginnings and don't feel that I have to live with MORE money just because I am moving to Spain. Inflation is everywhere and no matter where one ends up in life. We must plan accordingly and live life the way that we are accustomed to living it, making changes accordingly.

Shawn

quote:

As was said before, it�s all subjective and really depends on what you are willing to "give up".

I agree, Chica.

quote:

The metro costs the same to ride whether you make one connection or several...so, I would consider moving into a "lower rent" district and suck it up to a slightly longer metro ride.

It also depends on WHERE you are willing to live. I have 4 neighborhoods in mind, but after reviewing my budget and seeing the price of some pisos in those neighborhoods, and if they don't fit my budget, then I am open to living elsewhere.

I have plans A - Z and will implement each one when the time is right.

Thanks again for the advice.

Shawn

I think that you will find it is all a case of changing day to day. It is possible for it to be really cheap to live in Spain but then some days you can just spend, spend, spend... I have a problem that my flat is opposite a store called VIPS and after a day at uni it's convinient to drop by there and get bread, water and something else to eat if I don't have time for (or don't feel like) going to the supermarket. By doing this I spend double the money I would going to the supermarket. If you do go and do all your shopping at supermarkets it is quite a reasonable place to live (especially compared to being a student in England).

If you find a place in the centre to live it may still be better to go a bit further out on the metro to do your grocery shopping. The hypermarkets can sometimes be cheaper than the supermarkets and they have special offers on a lot of the time. If you find one that is on a Metro line that that goes straight to where you live then it's not that much trouble carrying your bags on the metro and some nice people will sometimes let you have their seat. The main hypermarkets are Al Campo, Eroski, Carrefour etc. But beware they make you walk through all the Cds and DVDs before you get to the food so you have to be strong willed (I'm not).

As for budgeting for going out it is again a lot cheaper than England (sorry I cannot really compare England to America but it is very expensive for a student). If you get a copy of In-Madrid it tells you when it is student night and where and most of the clubs are free to get into (and sometimes will give you a free drink)if you get there before a certain time. And if you go to the Irish Bars it is soooo much cheaper to drink beer in bottles than have a pint which is completely opposite to England.

The metro is great, and if you get an Abono, the monthly pass then, you can use it on the buses as well. I think that I could budget as a student to live well here without spending that much money, but I tend to spend all my money on clothes, books, music, football tickets... but at the end of the month I don't think I have spent too much on the essentials.

Hey all, fast becoming a great thread!!!

Time for me to chime in here.

OK, �grocery shopping should be done at D�a and Lidl. You really need not look any further than those 2 places. D�a is THE cheapest grocery store here. A lot of Americans and other foreigners shop at Champion but it is NOT a good deal compared to D�a, in fact, Champion (previously called "Simago" is expensive, almost as much so as the supermarket at El Corte Ingl�s.

Sometimes there are items on special at the Corte Ingl�s supermarket and they can be a good deal but in general, it is not a good place to shop.

Ok, the cheaper supermarkets like D�a, Lidl, Gama, etc... have a haphazard way of puting the fod out all over the place and are unorganized to say the least. The more expensive stores such as Champion and El Corte Ingl�s are often more attractive to foreigners (especially Americans) since the layout of the restaurant is more like that of a US supermarket, simple as that. We are creatures of habit and as a general rule, we fall back on what we feel comfortable with instead of learning to adapt to new things.

Also, the fruit and veggies at the more expensive supermarkets are self-service with the plastic gloves and baggies while at the cheaper ones you need to ask the employee to give you 1 kilo of this, half kilo of that, etc...
The selof-service fruit and veggies are also a big pull for foreigners who have weak Spanish language skills or are intimidated and afraid to ask for help.

El Corte Ingl�s supermarket and Champion also accept credit cards while D�a & Lidl DO NOT.

So, supermarkets like EL Corte Ingl�s and Champion bank on this and will always be the more popular choice for foreigners, even though they are significantly more expensive.

Chica, I would normally agree with you about it being cheaper to cook at home than eat out for lunch every day but in my case we will have to make an exception. I eat lunch out just about every weekday after I leave the office at 3:00pm. I usually spend about 5-7 Euros on lunch and I would argue that it is cheaper (not to mention a WHOLE LOT easier) to eat out than it is to cook for 1 person (Ena eats a men� del d�a lunch at work for 1.90 Euros, grrrrrrrrrrrrr ).

Or maybe I am just a lazy boy

I too think that a 1,000 Euros/month budget is a lot for a student sharing a place with others. Sedusa is just livin large

As for budget planning, do it in EUROS, even if you are not here yet. The earlier you start thinking in Euros the better.

espe3, I love your idea for those still not in Spain to go do a mock grocer shopping session, it will be great to orient them more or less around what they will spend (less about 25-30% for Corte Ingl�s prices of course).

Shawn is right, if one tries and budgets well it is still quite possible to do it on 800 Euros/month in Madrid.

espe3 wrote....

quote:

"I also think that anyone going to Spain expecting to make the same money they do in the US"

I agree that this is what many expect but would hope that there is enough info on this and other Spain boards to warn them against having false hopes like this.

Amapola wrote...

quote:

Wow! I go to work and there are a million replies.

Another bit of proof that work is bad for you :jeje:

Saludos,
jer...

Hi all!

GULP!

I'm going to be studying for about 13 months in Madrid. I plan on sharing an apt and since my gf lives there I plan on eating a lot at her house. My only expenses will be food (canned goods of course, fresh veggies, and some perishables), the student abono for the metro and a cell phone for emergencies. I'm bringing about 12k with me and that's roughly 900/mo. I plan on living very cheaply (i.e. not buying any clothes there or shopping too much). I figure about 350E's for rent. 70E's for groceries, 30E's for el abono, 50 for misc. That's about 500/month. I know it's a very undetailed budget but I'm working on it.

Frugality is a virtue.

Mike,

You will do just fine. What you have to do is budget the first month and stick to it. I, myself, do not have expensive tastes and can live on what I have budgeted for Spain.

When a student, live like a student.

Shawn

Redwood-
I did read all of your comments but no matter how I reply it seems you're being defensive and I feel aggressive without cause. I'd like to drop it. Mia culpa. :ks: So you don't like what I said or wrote, no big deal, hopefully it will be of assistance to someone else. You're all set. You can live on Soup, plse someone refer to the list Shawn posted so I don't reduce it to just 'beans and rice' like I mistakenly did before (yes I mimimized it- you also said you were going to go vegetarian an limit your meat- may I recommend a really good and I think reasonably priced restaruant by the name of Artemisa? Between granvia and sol- its kind of burried in there I forget the name of the plaza, its near the movie theatre- Jer I'm sure you've heard of this restaurant-can you say the street exactly?) and for the record beans and rice isn't a bad thing- and can be very healthy if done properly. :cheers:

All of my statements are never for just one person, so please, those of you who do read them, don't think they pertain to one person one situation- I may reply something back to someone, but generally its for everyone, otherwise I wouldn't post it, but send an e-mail.

Shawn, I didn't say it couldn't be done, but I thought you'd be looking for a place dead center so that the rent would take up most of your budget.

Part of the life and culture of Spain is the socializing so whoever you are people you don't have to have $1,000's in spending money, but enough to go out (be it disco, coffies, dinner etc. )but it is necessary-( as we've said in other posts that people don't do much entertaining at their homes- which in the US depending on the city you live in can make it much less expensive when you want to socialize) at least if you plan on being involved in the Spanish culture and not just living there.

Jer I agree with the euro mentality before you go. Do budgeting in that- it will make things easier.

Chica the average salary, yes but I like to make sure I budget so that I save something so I'd better have something left over if I'm making that much! Otherwise I'm spending too much money on other things and I'd have to think about cutting back on something! Personally, until I have income I'm budgeting fairly low, although I do like to price out higer for food stuffs (thus the el corte ingles trick) because first I want to cover the basics- I'm lucky as housing is taken care of and my rent will be fairly low but I need to be saving money to get another place eventually- so I'd budget what an average rent is anyway. And then of course food- as long as that's met I'm good! The phone of course when it comes time will be another issue- irght now I have my prepaid- eventually I'll get the landline installed- so that will help also.

As far as where to grocery shop- if any of you have a mercado near you (not mercadillo and its not a supermarket- like the Mercado Barcelo in Tribunal- different booths set up for cleaning/higene products, meat, fresh fish, frozen veggies, fresh veggies/fruit etc.) you'll generally find better prices than the supermarkets for your groceries. Thank goodness I have one of these by my apt. because within walking distance I only have Champion, a mini Dia and Hipercor (the corte ingles) we do have an Al Campo but I don't have a car so I have to get a friend or somebody to take me and that's a pain- because they can't always go when you need to and I don't like to impose so its not something I usually ask either Oh well!

Espe3

quote:

I did read all of your comments but no matter how I reply it seems you're being defensive and I feel aggressive without cause.

SEEMS is a very subjective word. This is exactly why I don't like having SOME type of conversations on message boards like this. Many things need to be said face to face because the spoken word is more powerful and emptional than the written word.

There is NO need for you to feel agressive because my comments were not meant to be defensive. It's WHAT IS NOT SAID that's more important than what's actually said.

Many times we tend to put our own emotions into what we read and that can be dangerous. I read your post OBJECTIVELY and just felt the need to RESPOND to some of the things that you have said. I had no need to DEFEND my position at all. I also gave you a little of my background so you can see where I am coming from when it concerns financial matters.

Let's look at these two words: RESPOND means to say something in return. DEFEND means, in this case, to maintain in the face of argument or hostile criticism.

Between these two words and the definitions given above, I chose to RESPOND. There was nothing to DEFEND.

Have a great day,

Shawn

I meant I felt you were being defensive (as to what I wrote )and aggressive (towards me) without cause. I also recognize that with certain cultural differences what I percieve to be aggressive may not be so, but that is what I got from your post- which is why I said seems (like you said subjective- it was my perception I wasn't sure so I said seems- that doesn't mean that you were ) Either way, I hope we're cool.

Where your background is financially I think its good you know how to administer your money, even people that didn't have any lack of money growing up- more often than not when they go out into the world by themselves. Myself- we never wanted for anything, but by no means were we rolling in money (military) my parents knew how to live well within their means and I can't complain. I'm a financial wiz when it comes to budgeting and such matters and am very cautious with what I spend and how I spend it- although I recognize that if you're able to do it, there are circumstances where one has to throw a bit of that caution to the wind! But I'm a planner- I'll make several budgets with different scenerios and see where they would take me and use the one that will provide the best benefits for what I want to do (save for house etc.)

I agree- especially through posts, its difficult at times to determine the tone of the post and for me sometimes as you said being clearer. Like I tell my mom, sometimes my eeenglish iz not zo gut! I do try to be concise and clear but am only human, so I hope I've managed to clear things up now.

Of course we are cool. We just need to have this conversation and others like it face to face next time.

Besos,

Shawn

I agree, work is bad, but in this case its money for Spain. I think just to be on the safe side I will plan for about 1,000 per month. I think that would definitely be comfortable. Dia is a great really cheap supermarket. I think it was the cheapest while I was in Sevilla also. Thanks for the info guys!