k thanks for the tips, jer! i'll easily give up sunday afternoons for 4cents/min the rest of the week!

Dear tonytorero,

it's been a few weeks since i was asking about this, so i hope you'll find this reply! i think you and jer have convinced me to get an ADSL line once i am in spain! it will be so much easier than hasseling with going to a cybercafe, and once the cost is split with my roommate, about the same cost as well.

you has said that if i was truely interested in ADSL, that you could do a little research for me on rates, service providers, bandwidth, etc. is this offer still good? this would be a GREAT help. I have a Sony Vaio laptop that has a cable line hookup and modem (is different from an ADSL modem?). your 24-hr line sounds OK at 43euros a month (including IVA). but, do you know of anything cheaper? i could deal with some time-restricted access (i.e. i think wanadoo has a 3pm-8am deal), but if you know of any other 24 hour deals do tell me. (for example, we'll only be using one computer and don't need an option to connect others, if that makes any difference.) as far as bandwidth goes, (and i hope i am correcly judging what bandwidth is) i won't be downloading movies or anything, but maybe a song or two. you said your connection does 50kb/second. perhaps i could do less than that if it's any cheaper?

also, you mentioned that most of the providers give free installation, subscription, and the modem (do they have to install that in my laptop?). This is most essential to me. If i end up having to pay for these, then the cost-effectiveness compared to cyber-cafeing it goes out the window. SO, who do i need to call or what do i need to do or say to get these freebies?

i hope these questions don't create too much work for you! :b: btw- i'll be in valencia when i want this hookup, and leave for spain the begining of sept, but won't be at my own place until october.

mil gracias. hasta pronto, rebecca

Tony, one more questions, and this should procede what i asked in my last post.

to get ADSL, do i have to be paying for a telephone in my apartment? i wanted to avoid getting a land line, but i think i have to have one for the adsl to be connected, right? and that land line can be kind of pricey. i'm not sure if i would just rather use a free dial-up with my archaic 56k modem through that phone line, instead of paying for the land line AND the 43euros for ADSL.

what do you have to say about this?

thanks!

Hi Rebecca! I've been wanting to put together a little "cheat sheet" (chuleta in Spanish) of ADSL service providers in Spain for a while. As a result of this thread, you've given me the necessary inspiration to take a little bit of time today and start this document. (Something you may very well live to regret! )The document is a work in progress and I'll probably let you know when I update it via this thread.

You can access the document by clicking on the following link: ADSL Providers in Spain . The doc is in a .doc file in .zip format. Hopefully that's simple enough for everyone. Let me know if you have any problems.

Now let me warn you, this document is true to my style of writing things that tend to be too long :lo: , but I've tried to make it something more informative and analytical than technical.(Though it does have technical info in there as well.) Whether or not I've been successful with this is for you to decide.

One comment I will make regarding what I've seen is that I like the offers that "Ya.Com (aka- Jazztel)" have right now. They may be a provider I'd recommend you consider seriously...FYI.

I haven't found any "ADSL in Spain" specific documents in English, so I've taken the Spanish information from each provider's web site, pasted it into my document and given an English translation in parenthesis for the parts that I think are important. I didn't spend a lot of time translating the nitty-gritty stuff because I don't really have time to do so. I sincerely hope it helps you make an informed decision.

I'll try and take some time between today and tomorrow and answer some of your specific questions for you. Happy ADSL Hunting!

Wow, Tony, this is great! It helped me, and i'm sure it will help countless other people.

I looked over the document and agree with you on liking the Jazztel deal. In the box you copied about their characteristics and price, i didn't see anything about free installation. (i DID see free modem and subsription.) is the installation is free as well?

what are RTC and RDSI lines? I saw these at the jazznet site at www.jazznet.es/acceso/productos.asp?clasif=productos&opcion=duet

btw- are ya.com, jazztel and jazznet all the same thing?

you didn't have wanadoo in your document. I kind of liked their Tarifa Plana Ocio. Are you familiar with that? Can you tell if that comes with free subscription, installation, and modem also?

ok, and lastly, i'm still curious about the adsl cost PLUS costs for a telephone line, and if i indeed do need to be paying both. if so, do you have any recommendations on how to minimize those costs? i know that you'd probably disagree with my "get a phone line and dial up free" idea. verdad? :lo:

-rebecca

Hey tonytorero, ok buddy, you are now officially on the multimadrid payroll Above and beyond my man!

rebecca, as if tony missed anything I can tell you that...

� RTC (I think it is the same as RTB) = "Red de "Transferencia B�sica" which is the techy term in Spanish for a basic dialup connection. This is a S.L.O.W. connection and will frustrate you, in my opinion it should not be considered if you want high speed internet.

� RDSI = ISDN in English which for all intensive purposes is a higher speed digital connection (faster than RTB basic dialup and slower than ADSL). While the RDSI line also lets you use the phone for voice communication while online (like the ADSL) and it is cheaper (about half as much �) as the ADSL, it does not compare in speed at 64 Kbps compared to the "promised" 256 of ADSL.

As for the other remaining doubt in your mind, YES, as far as I know you need to have a land line in order to have ADSL. You can get it all put in at once but the ADSL is anolog connection to the internet and if there is an existing live land line already in the apt. they simply install the ADSL over (on top of so to speak) the existing line as they did with mine when I moved from a dialup to ADSL about a year ago. You need to pay the land line rental fee as well and if you find a way to reduce these costs, PLEASE let me know

quote:

"btw- are ya.com, jazztel and jazznet all the same thing?"

Yep! One and the same. The corporation is called Jazztel, jazznet, jazzfree, jazzhuevos and all the rest are just names given to their various services. Ya.com is their official internet portal just as terra.es is the official user's portal of Telef�nica.

Saludos,
jer...

Hey jer... I guess the 'Talon' is in the mail, right?! Just kidding. I have wanted to do it for some local friends who are always asking me about it. Rebecca just gave me the excuse. As my father always said when I was growing up, "I don't need money, just an 'attaboy' every once in a while!"

Rebecca... To piggy back on what jer just said:

quote:

As for the other remaining doubt in your mind, YES, as far as I know you need to have a land line in order to have ADSL.

Though it is technologically possible to give setup an ADSL service without the use of an analog PSTN (regular, vanilla, basic) phone line, I don't believe there's presently a logistic manner in which you can accomplish this in Spain. (Though we were able to do it internally at our Network Management laboratories when I worked at Alcatel.) I've been asking around since you asked the question yesterday and I have not learned of any ADSL service that lets you do this.

This certainty basically amounts to the fact that it's pretty much impossible to 'get away' from the monsterous entity that is Telef�nica for pretty much anything involving telecommunications. Even though you have ADSL with somebody else, somewhere along the way you're going to be subjected to the underlying telecommunications infrastructure of Telef�nica. As far as I know, it's pretty much unavoidable.

Also, I totally agree with jer that an ISDN line (RDSI in Spanish) is not your preferred choice. The service difference doesn't justify the expense in my opinion. If somebody else doesn't agree with that comment, please let me know, but that's my fairly passionate opinion.

To borrow one of chica's well put expressions:

quote:

That's all for now. tonytorero reporting from the front-lines. jer, back to you...

Ok, I've embellished a bit, but it sounds cool!

TonyT...That was one of MY expressions??

Just when I think it's getting easy, more baffling info! i guess at this point i'll just bring my laptop and see what kind of phone situation already exists in the apartment i eventually move in to. if there's already a phone line, perhaps i can easily transfer it and then do adsl. if there isn't, because of finances, i unfortunately may have to look into dialing up. but, don't hate me! i will make every economical attempt to get ADSL. however, if circumstances should be so unfortunate, do you have a recommendation for a free dial up service? I know navegalia had one but i can't get that site to work now. i saw wanadoo has one. any others??

finally one more question. moving the thread from internet to land lines... i looked at the telefonica site and am again overwhelmes. because i'll have a cell phone (and dont know the cost-effectiveness of calls through the cell vs. land lines), I dont know how many calls i would actually make on a land line, in addition to possibly using it to dial up to the net. with that in mind, do you have any suggestions for a plan for me to get? I was at this telefonica site forServicios para Casa and there's lots of discount plans, etc. do you telecommunications gurus have a quick assessment of all these?

Perhaps when i get to spain i can go to a telefonica store and they can give me some kind of package deal. Rachel above mentioned having a phone for 11 euros and an internet option for 18euros. that sounds doable, but that installation fee is killer.

dios mio!'m getting information overload just writing you guys!

-Rebecca

Rebecca,

We still haven�t received a phone bill yet (it�s been 2 months), so I only know what Telefonica has told me.

Anyhow, I just got a cell phone, and with my particular plan (which seems common), local as well as international rates are MUCH cheaper on the landline.

I know the installation is annoying, but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents!

Telefonica bills two months at a clip, so it�s normal that Rachel hasn�t received her first bill yet.

Rachel congrats on the cell phone! Yes, they are ungodly expensive here so just be aware when you are using them.

And Tonytorero, they say that imitation is the best form of flattery .

Chica, from the front line, signing out for now!

Hey binkx,

quote:

"i guess at this point i'll just bring my laptop and see what kind of phone situation already exists in the apartment"

The situation will most likely be that the hookup (not the technical term, the phone jack is better) will be there at the apartment but it will not be "live". You will suffer the international phenomenon of having to pay an arm and a leg ("un ojo de la cara" or eye from your face in Spanish) to have the phone co. (Telefonica) flip a switch to turn it on. Pleasantly enough, in Spain this takes about 3 weeks normally and costs about 150 Euros (give or take 10 Euros, usaully give!).

As for cheaper calling plans, get in touch with Retevision ( www.retevision.es ) and set yourself up with what we "in the know" call the "1050 thang!". Retwvision will ask for your bank info and will set you up so that you can dial "1050" before any number you call from a land line, saving up to 30%

Also, get a hold of the famouse "Eurocity" calling card. See http://www.multimadrid.com/practical_info/mad_phoning.htm for details. It is sold at most "locutorios" (calling centers) and gets you dirt cheap rates (4 Eurocents/min to the U.S., Canada and Europe)

Finally, cell phone rates are more expensive than land line rates.

Saludos,
jer...

p.d. Hey Rachel, as Chica said, Telefonica bills every 2 months but I really hope that you never get a phone bill

p.d.d. I just realized that this thread ROCKS, chock full o great info, thanks to all!

ok, in the odd case that i do need to dial up through a modem... i have an extra long telephone line (i.e. the one that goes from the wall into your phone/computer.) it's maybe 30ft. does spain use the same kinds of lines as the US, with the same plugs and jacks? if so, i'd like to bring it, as it would be great if my computer is not necessarily near the phone jack in the wall.

thanks!

Hey Rebecca:

I think you're starting to see what we warned you about in the beginning... This is a difficult issue to deal with!

I don't know, but what you may want to consider, in spite of my obvious convictions on the issue , getting a land-line, dialing up with your laptop at first and seeing how things go.

Depending on how strapped you are for cash, you may want to start with that route because you'll have local calls and basic internet access covered (Remember: Monday through Friday after 6pm and Sat. & Sun. 24 hours per day) and then, if you see that your finances permit it, use the ADSL document and see what specials are out there. Just an idea. It's probably the most practical idea to be honest. (May the gods of broadband communications forgive me!)

quote:

As for cheaper calling plans, get in touch with Retevision ( www.retevision.es ) and set yourself up with what we "in the know" call the "1050 thang!".

We used to use 1050, but we found that 1073 (Tele2) had much better rates for calling to the US (16 cents per minute). Just a note.

He Rebecca, wow! We have covered so much here but RE your last question a few posts up...

quote:

"...does spain use the same kinds of lines as the US, with the same plugs and jacks?"

YEP! The phone jacks are one less thing to worry about as they are the same here as in the good old U.S. of A

Same goes for the RJ45 cables (network cables) here in Spain and in most (if not all) countries of the world). I have a 60 foot network cable and can surf the web from the other end of my apartment

Saludos,
jer...