Hi all!

My name is Jamie, and I will be in Madrid in August 2002 for the duration of a year to start my masters with Middlebury college. (Jer, you said you went here, right?) I'm very excited, but I'm going to have a TON questions about how to prepare, find an apartment, manage my money, etc.

I'll start off with the obvious: Any other Middlebury folks?? I would love to know some scoop on the program. How is it? Hard? Is it fun? How is finding an apartment? Ann input would be much appreciated, and any new friends will make me very happy!

Hi Jamie, welcome to the board. I have been away and just got to see this thread.

As for your questions on how to prepare your stay here, keep looking through all the great threads on the more than 20 forums on this message board and you will learn a lot. Surely by simply reading them you will answer a lot of the burning questions and I hope other people's posts will put you at ease if you have any doubts or reservations.

Oh to go back and do what you are doing all over again. I was in your exact same position abotu 6 years ago, getting ready to do the 6 weeks summer study at Middlebury College Spanish School in Vermont prior to my academic year abroad here in Madrid at the Instituto Internacional.

I know Shawn (Redwood) is another "Middleburyite" and I thimk I saw a few more people on the board once that had done the program.

I have a friend here in Madrid (just one ) who also did the program with me and he stayed after it ended- As I said in a previous post on another thread we should all meet up in August.

He had a bad time since he clashed with one of the teachers named Eduardo Camacho (as did Shawn I think). I am sure it will enlighten you to sit down with us all and shoot the breeze.

Personally my experience at Middlebury Spain was positive, the quality of education was good, the "profes" were helpful, nice and the majority were knowledgable.

My only gripe was that the program was (and still is) at the International Institute which is a breeding ground for native English speakers and is not conducive to learning Spanish. In spite of the Middlebury language pledge which prohibits their students from speaking English (or anything but Spanish for that matter) during the course of the program, the institute wreaks of English since the MANY other schools there in the building do not have the pledge.

On the positive side, when I was doing my Masters there, they had just implemented the option to take some of your classes on campus at the Universidad de Carlos III (WEBSITE HERE) which I would definitely do if I had the chance to go back and start again.

Take as many of the classes there as you can, immerse yourself in Spanish university life and have a great time.

Middlebury Spain has been around for 50 years and it is a very promising program but you and only you will dictate how much you get out of your stay here in Madrid (god,I sound like a professor )

Saludos,
jer...

Jer,

I had a positive at experience at Middlebury also, but it took me a while to see that. I didn't realize it until I was back in the states.

I have already Emailed Jaime and we discussed at great length EDUARDO CAMACHO. I talked about my personal experiences. I wans't into literature and culture. I should've taken a Spanish culture course, since I was in Spain, but hey, water under the bridge now. Can't go back and change it.

Shawn

Hey Jamie, wow!!! Hard to believe a year has come and gone.

Not sure if you decided to stay in Spain or if you are back in the USA by now???

I had a question via e-mial yesterday about the Middlebury Masters and wanted to revive this thread.

As an alumnus I also went to the 2003-2004 Middlebury in Spain orientation/banquet (thanks Lena ) the other night so Middlebury has been on my mind quite a bit lately.

I was wondering if you had time to post here and let us know your impressions/experiences/etc... from your year with Middlebury (both the Vermont summer and the academic year abroad). The more the better but if you don't have that much time I understand.

I know there are also a few others (amapola, michelita) doing the Masters here right now and would also love to hear from them on the subject.

Where are all of you??? Have not heard from you since you hit Madrid :cry:

Saludos,
jer...

C'mon Jer, what do you think? they haven't been on the board because it's in English!!! And they're not going to break the pledge, right?
As an alumn and now a Midd employee I'll be happy to answer questions any future students have, also to compare notes and hear from alumni. This is an excellent place to catch up with each other and also an excellent place for future students to get the scoop from other previous students, not the Midd PR office.
If current students have questions they should come to my office and we'll talk in Spanish of course (although highly stressful situations or an imperative need to communicate will prevail, behind closed doors, over the keeping of the pledge). No obstante, y dicho sea de paso, no soy polic�a de la lengua. En Middlebury creemos que usar exclusivamente la lengua que se aprende es LA MEJOR manera de aprender y dominar esa lengua. Pero lo que cada cual hace en su tiempo libre y en sus relaciones sociales es asunto suyo y queda entre el/ella y su conciencia, y no soy yo la que tendr� que vivir con los resultados ling��sticos despu�s. Just as Jer so wisely said, what you put into it, or how you keep the pledge, dictates how much you get out of your whole learning experience in Middlebury.
Lena

Jejejejeje, lena, yer killing me with that pledge!!!

Thanks for the offer to "campo" (field :jeje: ) any questions from possible Midd. students here on the board

Saludos,
jer...

And I think I've got you out Middlebury-ed!!! My mom went to Middlebury College for undergrad (spanish, natch), did the MA in Madrid (her fault I got hooked on Madrid). I did the summer language school (Italian-don't ask) in Vermont, spent my first year of college there (studied Russian-REALLY don't ask) AND, my parents LIVE in Middlebury!!!!!

A bit scary schwendy

You may be hired to do a commercial one day for them.

Saludos,
jer...

Ok jer, as promised I am goign to try to give some of my thoughts on the middlebury program here so far. Lena, please, just close your eyes now. Also, please note that these are only one girls thoughts, and I know for a fact that they are NOT the feelings of many others in the program.
So, this summer I did the mandatory 6 week stint in Vermont, which sucked because it was Vermont, but was ok in terms of the actual program. I say ok because I really wasnt impressed with the level of the classes. I took the mandatory language class SP502, which was actually probably the best of all of them. I went the first day to the mandatory literary analisis class, but after realizing it was the same thing I took freshman year undergrad, went to talk to the director. He agreed, after seeing some of my papers, etc. that it was not necessary for me to take the course and instead could do some other literature class of my choosing in Madrid. So instead I ended up in a sociolinguistics class that was fairly interesting. My third class was a teaching class on introducing culture and literature into a language classroom. My big gripe with the whole experience is that while there was certainly A LOT of work in a very short period of time, none of it was very challenging, or thought provoking, or really what I consider Graduate level. In fact I would say that the amount of hand holding that went on was far greater than in any of my undergrad classes. There was very little, if any, push for us to invesitgate outside of the assigned texts, and infact to use for it in the classes. We spent the bulk of class time reviewing what was supposedly the homework, where I had hoped we would have a chance to talk about the other things we had read, seen, discovered etc and how they related to the class, etc. There was also a big push for lots of student participation, which in and of it self is not so bad, but when the bulk of the student body did not even understand the plot of the story and their comments are What happened?, then really it is not helping me to learn anything. However, as the classes I ended up taking were in fields that I was relatively unfamiliar with, the introductory level was not too bad. Plus I had high hopes that all would be different in Spain.
Unfortunatley this is not the case. I feel very similarly frustrated by the level of intellectual discussion goign on in my classes here. Seriously, in one of my classes the other day the prof was talking about Lorca and asked if anyone had ever read anything by Lorca and I swear not a single person raised their hand! How can you be in a graduate program in Spanish and never have read anything by Lorca. Then in one of my history classes we were talking about the Borocco and the Renacimiento and when the prof asked for a brief description of each, a painter from each, a writer from each, no one could come up with anything and we had to go into this whole explanation of what is the renacimiento. I dont understand what university is giving out undergraduate degrees in any sort of humanities field to people who have now concept of major aesthetic movements!
However, I dont think that it is the fault of the professors, who in general, I think are very good. The problem lies in the fact that there are, apparently, people who have never studied these fields before (which is also not their fault) in the same classes with people who just spent 4 years studing them. How can that possibly work? I pretty much feel like I am repeating everything I did as an undergrad and have yet to learn anything new. And i understand that it is new for a lot of people, but I thought that it was a graduate program and as such assumed that people came in with a base knowledge in the field.
My other complait is, and I know Lena will kill me for this, the new building and the fact that it has no library. For all my complaining about the level of intellectual discussions in my classes, I am 2389479283 times more concerned about the fact that I know longer have a library at my disposal. Yes, we can use the CSIC, but honestly, every time I go there I waste more time than I can count, and leave thoroughly frusrated as it is not an open stacks library, but rather you have to fill out little slips of paper for each book you want and turn them into the one guy working who then tells you itll be an hour or two before you can have your books, 2 at a time. And then yu get them, and maybe they are not exactly what you were looking for, so you fill out some more slips, etc. As you can see it is not the most efficient system, not is it very good for doing research. Maybe its just me, but when I have to pick a paper topic, I like to go to the library, wander through PQ land, pick up a few books, read a few articals, leaf through the most recent volumns of Cuadernos Hispanoamericano and see what people are writing about, what is goign on inthe field, what looks interesting to investigate further. This is utterly impossible here. Honestly, given that Im not getting alot of intellectual conversation in class, it would be totally worth it to me to hear 10 minutes of english in the halls of the instituto to be able have access to their ample and open stack library. Also, as we are a fairly big program, I feel that the building is way too small and we are all constantly on top of one another. Thus, it is impossible to study in the "library" there as one can hear everything goign on in the whole school and has to share a seat and the one book with their classmate.
My this is getting long, but I didnt want it all to be a rant, which I know it appears to be. The truth is I am beyond happy being here in Madrid, and I am certianly finding other ways to fill the time I expected to be at the library reading the lastest galdosian critic or whatever (Ferria del vino, theater, cine, trip here, trip there, banos arabes, hanging out with the roommates, endless cafes, etc). But, as far as the level of academics of the program, I am well, not impressed. In fact, I am fairly worried about applying to PhD programs now, as I feel I will be lacking adecuate preparation. Anyways, like I said, just one girls thoughts...But Im interested to know from former Middleburians (Middleburites?) if these were similar feelings, or am I just looney?
Michelita

Michelita,

I am a former graduate of the Midlebury program and I am very disappointed in what you have written. You have chosen to focus on what's wrong with the program instead of what's right with the program.

You are quick to point out the level of students, which, in your opinion, are not adequate to the graduate level. You say that there are things and certain knowledge that they should come in with. Am I to assume that you know everything about the Spanish language and can skip the MA and just go straight to the Ph.D.? Correct me if I am wrong, but your post comes off as if you think you are better than everyone else in the program. If this is not the case, certainly clarify.

I didn't find the classes in Vermont challenging either, but I did the work and didn't pay attention to what others around me did. I did what improved my Spanish and what made me more knowledgeable in the language.

quote:

Seriously, in one of my classes the other day the prof was talking about Lorca and asked if anyone had ever read anything by Lorca and I swear not a single person raised their hand! How can you be in a graduate program in Spanish and never have read anything by Lorca.

This case is easy. I don't care about Spanish literature. I only made sure that I read the literature of Latin America in my undergrad. When I did the Middlebury program, I only took one class that dealt with Spain. Remember, students tend to take classes that interests them.

quote:

I pretty much feel like I am repeating everything I did as an undergrad and have yet to learn anything new. And i understand that it is new for a lot of people, but I thought that it was a graduate program and as such assumed that people came in with a base knowledge in the field.

If this is the case, LEAVE the program right now. Stop giving Middlebury your money and find another program. I would hate for you to stay in a program where you are not happy. I know that there are many programs that would be HONORED to have you as a student to bring the quality of their program to the standards that you are looking for.

quote:

My other complait is, and I know Lena will kill me for this, the new building and the fact that it has no library. For all my complaining about the level of intellectual discussions in my classes, I am 2389479283 times more concerned about the fact that I know longer have a library at my disposal.

and

quote:

Honestly, given that Im not getting alot of intellectual conversation in class, it would be totally worth it to me to hear 10 minutes of english in the halls of the instituto to be able have access to their ample and open stack library.

This is why you create your own personal library. The library at the INSTITUTO was not that great, so don't be fooled. AMPLE, girl, that's a word that doesn't even apply to the INSTITUTO's LIBRARY. You are too funny.

If you are a serious student as you want us to believe, start buying your own books to create your own personal library where you can have those books at your disposal. I did it and I loved creating a library which helped me in my classes.

quote:

But, as far as the level of academics of the program, I am well, not impressed. In fact, I am fairly worried about applying to PhD programs now, as I feel I will be lacking adecuate preparation. Anyways, like I said, just one girls thoughts...But Im interested to know from former Middleburians (Middleburites?) if these were similar feelings, or am I just looney?

Once again, LEAVE THE PROGRAM. If you feel that you are not being prepared for a Ph.D. program, choose NYU or another program. Or better yet, talk to KIM, the director or write a letter to the president of Middlebury and let them know exactly how you feel. Don't keep it bottled inside. LET IT OUT. In order to have adequate change in a program, you need to let all of the people who are in administration know how you feel. DO IT! DO IT NOW!

As far your last question, I don't think your looney, just UNHAPPY!

Shawn

Shawn,
I certainly didnt mean to give the impression that I think I am better than everyone else. I think the problem is more in the background knowledge coming in. I have found the classes to be covering pretty much the same material I covered as an undergrad, and precisely because I dont think I know everything there is to know about Spain, and Spanish, and literature and history, or anything else for that matter, I would prefer to be learning things above and beyond the things Ive already covered. I dont think the other students are stupid, or �worse than me� or anything of the sort. But obviously their knowledge lies elsewhere, which is fine. But being that this is a graduate program in Spanish I thought that there would be an assumption of us already having this base knowledge so that we could move onward, learning more, moving towards the ever unacheivable goal of Knowing everything there is to know about anything. I certainly do not think myslef smarter, better, or whatever than everyone else, and I apologize if that was the impression I gave.
Ok, granted, by US standards the instituto library is nothing. However, for me at least, having open stacks and being able to browse through the if not ample than atleast adecuate resources there was very very helpful. Yes, I could make my own library, which I have started back in the states. But nor can I bring all of those books easly over here, nor if I buy the books here will it be easy to get them home. And, it will take a LONG time to build a real library... So, the library thing is a very serious problem for me.
I agree that my post was all negative. And its not that there aren�t good things too. And I also did not want to give the impression that I am unhappy. The truth is that in general I am quite content. But Jer had asked me for a real inside critique of the program, and that is what I gave. I agree that there are good things. In fact today I was sitting in class and realized with a smile that we were actually having our first real intellectual dissucion. Maybe its fate, and now that Ive siad it doesnt exist it will start happen. Ojala So, Im sorry if you were offended but those are the faults I see in the program.
Now, like I said, i know that I am a minority in these thoughts, so maybe its just me. Most people are saying that there is not enough guidance on what we need to be doing for the classes and that the professors just assume we know things we dont, and I think just the opposite. For me, when a prof treats me as if I should know things, that perhaps I dont know, that is the best motivation for to run out and learn it as so not to dissapoint them by showing my ignorance. But I am seeing that that same behaviour which for me is a great motivator is frustating to a lot of people. In the same way, when the professor stops to explain EVERYTHING, from which pages to read to what is a noun phrase, in minute detail it frustates me, and everyone else is content! So, maybe its just me.
Now, to show that its not all bad, I will list some of the good things about the program. First off, I am working in the office and working alot writing articles for the Boletin (newsletter) which is actually really fun. Its kind of a job a gave myself when I was bored of sitting waiting for the phone to ring, but its become my favorite thing. I write up little bits on fun cultural things in the city, review plays and movies, do interviews, etc. Being able to write in the buletin is definately a good thing. The program also organizes and subsidizes a whole bunch of weekend trips to other spainsh cities, which is also very good. They are short and pack in a lot of bang for your buck and all you have to do is sign up and pay, so it saves you a lot of leg work find ing transportaion and hotels and stuff. The program also reimburses us for cultural activities, like goign to the a play or a movie or a museum or whatever. This is also great, as it gives us more motivation to go out and use our Spanish. I know I have pretty much already used up my 40 euro allowance!
There are other good things too, but I hope this at least shows that the program is not all bad. I dont want to give that impression. Im just somewhat frustrated witht he academic side of things.
Michelita

Hey Michelita, thanks for the feedback, it certainly is a lot to think about.

Well, I too did the Middlebury Masters program in Madrid (complete with the Vermont summer which, being from BIG NYC, was a nice change of pace).

I know that the Middlebury library is new and growing but have you tried the Biblioteca Nacional ( in Spanish at www.bne.es and English version at www.bne.es/ingles ). It is a hop, skip & jump from the Middlebury building on "Paseo de los Recoletos" up by the "Plaza de Col�n"

After reading your post above and reflecting back on my experiences at Middlebury in 1995-6, I can't help but think that you are an accelerated student, is this true? When I say "accelerated", I am referring to a student who is normally ahead of his/her class in school.

If this is the case, even if the academic level of Middlebury Madrid is where it should be (and I think it is), you will not be happy with it as you will be bored and unchallanged.

I think it is great that you need more of a challange but as Shawn said above, you may need to look for a program that can provide you with one.

If it makes you feel bette, I entered a Doctoral program at the Universidad Complutense de Madrid a year after completing my Masters via Middlebury and I felt I was pretty well prepared.

The problem I faced was not being used to the Spanish university system but that is another topic allthogether.

Saludos,
jer...

Hey Jer,
Thanks for the tip. I have been to the Biblioteca Nacional, and of course just walking through those doors was a monumentous experious, especially for a bibliophile like myself! However, in terms of free access to books, it is even more frustrating than the CSIC system! And I understand that that is the Spanish way and all, but you�re talking to a girl who routinely had 50 books checked out at once back home, could tell you the LC code for most subjects by memory, and knew all of the reference and interlibrary loan librarian�s names! So, Yes, I am adapting, and the CSIC will suffice. And the Biblioteca Nacional is a good quiet place to study and feel inspired by all of the great literary minds aroudn you. I just miss getting to pick up what ever I felt like while I wandered through PQ land. There is nothing like wandering open stacks!
Thanks again for the tip!
Michelita

Michelita,

I am glad that you have listed some of the positive things about the program. You did not offend me in any way, shape or form. I just simply responded to what you wrote, THAT'S ALL. I found Midlebury to be an excellent program and everyone has a different opinion and situation within the program.

So now we get to the real question, why Middlebury over NYU? Now that you have made the decision, you have to deal with it and make the most of it. NO COMPLAINING!!! Now is the time to define yourself in the face of adversity. Will you bow out gracefully? Will you stay in for the long haul? Will you actually take my advice and write letters and try and make a change? The choice is yours. The ball is in your court now.

Shawn

Hey Shawn,
Glad to hear that you wernt offended-I Love a good debate. Anyways, as for the answer to your question, I chose Middlebury in the end based on money. They offered me an enormous sum of money and are cheaper than NYU to begin with. NYU did not offer me as much and costs more. It was that simple. Perhaps it shouldnt have been, but I also dont know that I would be any more happy at NYU...mayber, but who knows?
I have no plans to leave the program, as out side of the classes I am loving it here in Madrid, and the classes, although they are somewhat boring and frustrating, are not realling hurting me any to be in. As for writing to the top to make changes, I am not sure if that is a good solucion, only because I know that most people like the program and therefore it probably would not make any sense to change it. But, then again, maybe I will... In any case I will keep you posted.
Thanks again for the food for thought!
Michelita