quote:

why Middlebury over NYU?

I think this may have to do with finances.

I am positive the NYU program in more expensive than and gives less financial aide than the Middlebury program.

Both schools have EXCELLENT names and reputations so many might opt for Middlebury due to a better "deal" financially.

Saludos,
jer...

Woops!!! I was writing the above as Michelita posted her latest messaga and did not see it until after I sent mine.

Saludos,
jer...

Hi all...I am new to the group and looks like I came in at a good time! Michelita...guess what... this is THE week for negative feelings. It must be about midterm time...I did the program a few years ago and I remember thinking some of the same things at this point in the program, but then things changed (or I changed?). Knowing what I do now, if I had left the program, like I thought I might, I would have really missed out. It took me a while to realize that Middlebury is not the typical "spanish" M.A. Students come from all sorts of backgrounds, but that is what ended up being the best part, even though some of my classmates knew more (or less) than I did about some things. Oh, and the library at the Instituto...I actually ended up at the public libraries and the specialty libraries (I did my paper for architecture at the colegio de Arquitectos)...less English and more interesting, even though I couldn�t touch the books. It ended up being more than enough for my classes and even added some things that the professors were amazed that I had accomplished! any way, true... Midd is not for everybody, and ya can�t please all of the people all of the time. BUT, most people get a good share of good things from it. Talk to Kim...she might be able to give you some perspective.

Good luck.

quote:

As for writing to the top to make changes, I am not sure if that is a good solucion, only because I know that most people like the program and therefore it probably would not make any sense to change it

You shouldn't care what everyone else thinks or if everyone thinks the program is good. We never know what anyone is thinking. THANK GOD FOR THAT!

If you are not happy, let administration know. You have the right to be heard in this situation.

Suerte,

Shawn

Wow, what a great discussion!! And no Michelita, I�m not going to kill you, we love our student workers and need them alive.
As a matter of fact I have heard your complaints before and I think in part Jeremy is right, you are a bit accelerated and obviously have had a better humanities education than many of your classmates, certainly better than I had when I started the MA. Shawn is also right when he states that a lot of people have concentrated in their particular interests, so some of your classmates might come from strict language-only backgrounds and their grammar abilities might be fantastic yet they�ve never heard of Lorca or Gald�s. Others might have the whole Siglo de Oro classics memorized but don�t know what a subjunctive is. This is one of the advantages/disadvantages of the Midd program, we offer a comprehensive title that doesn�t specialize in literature or culture or language but you get a little bit of each. You come out with a more varied and ample education although maybe not as specialized and deep as you might wish. But that�s what PhDs are for.
Regarding the library, again, much has been said already but I can also add that some professors have noticed that since we�re out of the Instituto (and by the way, the Instituto library is not functioning fully yet ) the grad students have conducted more interesting and varied research. I also did my MA with Midd at the IIE and used the library there, it�s all right but it is limited. I know dealing with Spanish bureocracy is a pain but it�s a price we have to pay, you just need a little more patience and in exchange you have the possibility of much more varied research and volumes the IIE library could not even dream of having.
The most important thing, in my opinion, is what has been said here before as well, you get out of it what you put into it. I�m quite sure if you request more bibliography from your professors they will be very happy to recommend more intellectual texts and material and offer you more of a challenge. And furthermore, if you produce deeper (not longer) and more intellectual papers they will be delighted and will be happy to comment and grade at the appropriate level. And great timing on the prof that gave you an intellectual discussion today, must have seen the boredom on your face (kidding!).
Last but not least, the saying on your signature: I like it. Keep looking kid! Looking is the best part, and sometimes you find all other kinds of things you weren�t even looking for and they are the ones that make the journey worthwhile!
Lena

Wow, Lena, you rock! No, seriously, I think you hit the nail on the head. And I totally agree that the variety of backgrounds of the students in the program is an avantage/diavantage. On one hand we can all learn alot from each other, on the other we can make on another jump off a cliff. And the poor professor who has to try to put it all together! Really, I do understand that the all inclusive (culture, language, literature) eduaction is "the middlebury way", an I quite like that as I can work on the areas where I am weaker. However, it is very hard to accomdate for all of the different levels of background knowledge in any given class.

I have recently started researching for my final projects and, although the process is frustrating it is great to be reading and thinking and the like. I think this will definately help make me feel more like I am being a good studnet. And yes, the professors have been very encouraging, offering me reading suggestions and the like. My problem is more in class, where it always seems like we're getting the dumbed down version. On sevral occasoins now when Ive asked a question in class the answer has been "you dont need to know that, on the exam you will just have to..." Who the hell cares about the darn exam!!!???? If Im going to study something, I want the whole story, not just enough to pass an exam! But the studnets seem to like this approach, as there are constantly questions like "so one the exam if I just write XXX will that be ok?" "do we have to know X for the exam?" I dont know, I can get as stressed as the next guy about exams, but it seems to me that this focus is a little out of whack, no? Just learn as much as you can about said topic, and youll do fine. Like has been said a hundred times now, you are never going to know it all, but why limit yourself to just enough to pass the exam? Again, maybe just different styles, but it makes for some awfully boring classes that consist of talking about what is and is not on the exam, which pages exactly we should know, and absolutly no chance to think a little further, to "but what would happen if....", which for me is the interesting part.

Yeah, it was a great class today And actaully it was not so much the prof as the students who seemed to be really into it today. Either way, I was a happy girl, trying to decide if Celestina is bad or not, trying to decide if there is a lesson in the book and what it is, NOT CARING if the conversation would factor into the EXAM!, etc. Go Obras Clasicas! (Yes Shawn, I gotta say that I quite like Camacho. He is a bit brusque at first, but I think he is a pretty good professor. And he manages to convey the message of please use your brain instead of telling us everything in a this is this and that is that sort of way which for me at least is great!)

So, with my research projects starting up, and the hope that maybe more of my classes will spontaneously erumpt into great discussions, things are not so bad. And right, its all a journey, so we shall see what I can pick up along the way...

Thank you all for your advice, it really has been helpful!
Michelita

Michelita, THANKS for putting in some paragraph breaks on your second long message. That made it much easier to read!

Michelita,

As you can see, things do change. A lot of times, what we are looking for is right in front of us all along. You have just found it, in my opinion. Focus on what you want and let the rest of the crap slide off your back. Don't get so wrapped up in other students and their situation that you let it allow you to get frustrated.

I would still suggest that you fill out the final evaluation with how the program was for you. Don't hold anything back and be harsh, but supportive at the same time. Give solutions rather than just complaints.

Glad Camacho is working for you. My interests were and still are linguistics and laguage issues. I could care less about literature and culture. For me, they don't serve a purpose, but this is just my opinion.

Un besito,

Shawn

Hi everyone, its been a really long time since I've been on, and its only because since I've been here in madrid I haven't had that much internet access. I guess I got my ADSL at a convenient time when this post came up again. I'm also a student in the middlebury program here in spain and I just thought I'd give my opinion. First off, I like the diversity of the classes offered, I think it really gives everyone a chance to explore whatever subject matter they may be interested. I also really like the profs. I haven't had one extremely nice one yet. I'm also in obras clasicas with camacho, and generally speaking I do like the class. I've read most of those books before, but with every professor that you have you can learn new things and different perspectives about the books. I also had heard some not so great things about camacho from a lot of people, and to be honest I was expecting him to live up to that expectation. Hes actually kind of amusing though. I just think hes really sarcastic, and that can get to people who aren't used to it. Considering I'm not a very sensitive person, and am rather sarcastic myself, it doesn't bother me at all. Hes very knowledgeable, and seems to know about a lot of things, not just spanish lit. The only complaint I have about him is that it seems as if its hard to answer his questions correctly. Theres always some little catch, or something thats not quite right. But hey, we're there to learn so I pretty much just sit back and listen. In terms of the being taken by the hand statement, its true. Everything is very guided. I went to UMass Amherst as an undergrad, and they have the absolute worst administration system and class overcrowding, so I'm really used to fighting people to get what I need. I found it to be pretty surprising the amount of help that we get, but I think thats actually a positive thing. The main problem I have with the program is the atmosphere. I feel like the majority of the people in the program are immature and over-competitive. That just creates a bad atmosphere. I've resolved that though, by just showing up to class and going about my business without getting involved with any of those people. During the 2 months I've been here I've learned a lot. When I originally came I was interested in pursuing a PhD, but now that I've been doing the classes here, I've realized that I want nothing to do with it. Maybe this relates back to the atmosphere thing, but I can't spend my life cooped up doing work all day and never getting a chance to live outside. The most important part of being here is just that, BEING HERE! I've learned way more spanish outside than I could ever learn from a book. Don't get me wrong, I'm still really interested in the subject matter, but I've decided that all the reading I do in the future is going to be free time. Overall I would say the program is pretty decent. Nothing I would rave about, especially after the rough 6 weeks in VT, but definitely something good for people who want to pursue a degree abroad. In terms of VT, there were people who loved it, but I'm way too urban for that crap. Also, it sucked having to sit all day at my desk reading. It felt like I had no summer. If learning isn't pleasant than I don't think its worth it. I also didn't like that every minute of my day was planned and I was forced to spend every waking moment with people I didn't want to be with. There is no going home cause you live with them. I'm a very independent person, if I want something I go and get it, so that was just a really weird environment for me. First chance I got I sped back to Boston. Anyway, thats what I think. I don't know if what I wrote was too general, but if there are any other questions bring them on!

Hey amapola6, good to hear from you.

This is turning into a GREAT thread.

RE "Camacho", you wrote...

quote:

I just think hes really sarcastic, and that can get to people who aren't used to it.

An EXCELLENT observation!!! I agree 1,000,000%!!!

You hit the nail on the head. I am probably one of the MOST sarcastic people on earth and use sarcasm a LOT in my sense of humor. Because of this, I was not bothered by Camacho's sarcasm at all but there is a fine line between sarcasm and being VERY condescending and when I was in the Middlebury Madrid Masters program, Camacho had students in tears at times. I will admit that I too cross the line and that is why my sense of humor can go to far at times but a professor should control him/herself, considering the position they hold and influence they have over "young minds".

Saludos,
jer...

Great post and it wasn't too general. I agree with what you said about people. Go to class, learn what needs to be learned and go home. You can't get wrapped into what others do and let if affect you as a person.

Camacho was OK. I just find literature and culture boring. I only care about the language. You never truly can answer his questions the way that he wants. GOD only know I tried and I was always told that my work wasn't at the graduate level. After a while, I stopped trying and I didn't put much effort in my literature and culture classes. A B- was fine with me.

When I decide to do a Ph.D., I know that a B- won't stop from getting into a program.

Shawn

amapola612,
good observations. Regarding your statement

quote:

The only complaint I have about him is that it seems as if its hard to answer his questions correctly. Theres always some little catch, or something thats not quite right. But hey, we're there to learn so I pretty much just sit back and listen.

I understand what you mean, as a student I once had a one-on-one with Camacho in class during which I nearly wet my pants. It was just as you say, there was always a little catch, it seemed he questioned everything I said. When it was all over and I was going over it in my mind, my first impression was "I couldn't get anything right, he found something wrong with everything I said" then, as I thought about it more and more I realized he had not knocked me down, he had pushed me further. Instead of accepting my general answers, which were basically correct (but not too deep), he had looked for the weak points and he had asked me to revise and improve on them. He had pushed me further and further by questioning my statements and forcing me to defend them in a serious academic manner and back them up with the research I had done (thank God I had read everything for class that day, even further). He wasn't goign to settle for second best, he forced me to go deeper and he made me think on my feet and respond like no one had done before. In short, I had just experienced one of the deepest intellectual discussions of my academic life. That is the kind of experience that can prepare you to defend a thesis. Needless to say I became a fan after that, signed up for more of his classes next semester, and always went to class prepared! I still remember what I learned, not just about literature but about doing research and producing serious academic work that can be questioned by anyone.
Lena

Hmmmm...Camacho, now there is a hot topic. Sarcastic and condescending? It wasn�t my experience at all. He uses a lot of irony, but as anyone will tell you, irony is an intelligent form of humor. Condescending? You must mean demanding...and thank God for that. I know Midd alums in PhD programs that thank their lucky stars that they took Camacho�s classes. If he had people in tears, they weren�t prepared for graduate work. Academia ain�t no walk in the park...and it gets a lot crueler out there than Camacho making sure you know your shit.

No AH, "condescending" in the insulting "you are stupid" way.

Not constructive condescending nor intelligent, just plain beliteling.

Maybe he changed for your year but not likely

Saludos,
jer...

AH,

If you think that Camacho had you in tears, that doesn't mean you weren't ready for graduate work. I didn't find him to be anything special. He just did his job in my opinion.

I knew that I was ready for graduate work after my year of linguistic studies and pursuing an MA at the Universidad de Puerto Rico. I didn't have to take any literature or culture classes for that program.

If you came in with a low level of how to analyze literature, like I did, he can seem to be of no help. I noticed in class that he only called on those students who had a good background in analyzing literature. These are just my observations. I knew students that loved him and wanted to take more classes with him, so he can't be that bad.

Instructors fail to realize that not everyone has interest in literature and culture. Grabted, I knew I had to take the class and had high hopes when I went in. As soon as he started teaching, hopes were shot to hell and I gave up. I wrote him an Email and told him so and he won't stop me from getting a Ph.D. like he has other students.

I will take a few Ph.D. courses here in Spain and see how they are. If I like them, I will pursue my Ph.D. here.

Shawn