I talked to my uber-studious classmate today and he also failed. Very strange. He's also going to "reclamar".

He told me that our Art History professor--who was on the tribunal--told him after the test that there is a rule that if a test-taker indicates (inadvertantly or intentionally) anything personal at all in a response--such as the fact that he/she is a foreigner--that the section can get nullified. The tests have to be indentifiable only by the bar code and if an examiner feels that there is anything distinguishing that could identify a given test-taker, they stop grading. Perhaps this is what happened to you...

"Estudios Hispanicos Avanzados" is how I am ironically referring to the radical course of study that I am taking next year--as an "alumno visitante"--mixing History and Literature and Art in a toxic interdisciplinary cocktail.

quote:

there is a rule that if a test-taker indicates (inadvertantly or intentionally) anything personal at all in a response--such as the fact that he/she is a foreigner--that the section can get nullified. The tests have to be indentifiable only by the bar code and if an examiner feels that there is anything distinguishing that could identify a given test-taker, they stop grading. Perhaps this is what happened to you...

Ah, that could explain why I got 3% in each of those exams. It's the only explanation I can think of for such a low score. Unfortunately that doesn't bode well for my "reclamación" because they could end up just assigning me exactly the same score again.

Before we started the exams they did warn us not to sign our exams or put anything personally identifying in them. In my case I came to the second part of each of those exams and knew *nothing* about it. So basically I wrote "I know nothing about any of this stuff (that's why I am trying to get into university; to learn about it!) so I am just going to write whatever comes to mind and I hope you find it entertaining". Even if it's not the kind of remark that was going to earn me a lot of points I certainly don't think it could be considered as "personally identifying information" so if I get the results back and find they've given me the same mark again I'll go back and try to appeal the decision (fat chance, I know, but you've got to try). I wouldn't have made those comments if I thought they were in breach of the rules. It would be a shame to miss this opportunity just because of a single sentence they didn't like; if I don't pass then I am back to square one again with respect to the visa, and I will have wasted a whole day sitting those horrible exams for nothing.

Ah--I think you have your explanation... I hope they take pity on you during round 2.

It's funny, our language teacher went off a few weeks ago about how American students can write pages and pages and say nothing at all--and that we always want to know how many pages a composition must be.

He said that if a Spanish person got to the exam and didn't know the answer, he/she would sign the sheet and turn it in empty. He said that in all of his 20 years teaching no American has ever left a question blank. Looks like Australians may suffer from the same affliction...

quote:

Looks like Australians may suffer from the same affliction...

I don't know whether it's a national thing or just me. My logic has always been that it's better to write a total rubbish answer and perhaps get 1 or 2% for it than to write nothing at all and get zero, because that 1 or 2% could be the little bit that gets you across the line (especially in a case like this where I knew that failure was a very likely prospect!).

And back home I used to always try to get that last 1 or 2% even if I knew failure wasn't really a threat. I always just figured, "well, this horrible exam is three hours of my life, so I may as well use that time to wring as many marks as possible out of the exercise"...

Ah well... We'll see how it all turns out.

Hey Greguito--
Another question:

Did you ever look into trying to convalidar your Australian degree so that you could enter la Complu at the primero ciclo without having to go through the prueba de acceso?

After talking to my profs, I'm having a last minute change of heart and now would like to go into the Filologia carrera. But I fear that I'm a day late and a dollar/euro short, since I didn't take the old-geezer test (which I probably would have failed anyway).

So I'm off to the convalidaciones office tomorrow to find out if a US college graduate can start all over without having to take the prueba that they so inconveniently only give once a year and so sado-masochistically make impossible to pass. I don't even want to get credit for any of the many, many language and lit classes I took in college--some in Spanish universities. I just want to get in!


P.S. Our language prof told us that he knew of a Spaniard who went through an entire carrera at the university in Barcelona who had to to take the test to enter at Complutense years later and FAILED the prueba de acceso de mayores de 25...

P.P.S. Sorry, Jer, for all of the Spanish, but as you know, most of this bureaucratic nonsense just doesn't translate...

Went by the Vicerrectorado de Alumnos today to ask about convalidacion parcial--that is, having my US degree "convalidated" so that I can enter Complutense without having to take the prueba de acceso. Theoretically, through this process, one could also get credit for classes that correspond exactly with a course offered at Complutense (though they ask for syllabi and other info to confirm the content of the foreign course).

In any event, the Vicerrectorado de Alumnos told me that these partial convalidations are done by the Facultad in question. They told me to go to the Secretaria of the facultad. Which is the same advice I got from one person in the department in which I want to study--and the opposite from another...

At the Facultad I should be able to find out what documents I need to provide (this differs depending on the carrera). Once they have everything they need, a tribunal will decide whether to partially convalidate.

After this, the decision gets sent to a "tribunal mas gordo" at the university level where the ultimate decision of admission is made.

Tomorrow: the Secretaria de Filologia...

quote:

Originally posted by mariposita:
Did you ever look into trying to convalidar your Australian degree so that you could enter la Complu at the primero ciclo without having to go through the prueba de acceso?

I did briefly look at it and it looked so bureaucratically challenging that I decided to go the other route. This required a small fib on my part, as the 25+ test is intended for people who haven't ever done any university studies before (you have to sign a sworn declaration saying that you haven't done them!).

My visa situation is starting to get a bit ugly right now as my current "tarjeta de estudiante" expires in about four days (for some reason the expiry date on the card doesn't match up with the end date for the course I'm enrolled in). So the card expires on the 13th, I find out the results of my resubmitted exams the 14th, our course officially ends on the 15th of June, my plane ticket back home is for August, and the lease on my apartment is until October. So lots of dates and none of them line up conveniently.

At this stage I think I might just try to slip under the radar, leave the country a bit late, stay outside for two or three months, and then return later on.

I am also considering enrolling at a semi-private academy. A friend tipped me off on one that seems to be cheap enough. But I don't know the enrolment conditions, dates or prices yet, so will post that later when I find out about it.

Hey Greguito--
Two other options that you may not have thought of...

1. According to a girl in my class, the Escuela Oficial de Idiomas can also provide the paperwork for the Visa and it is even cheaper than Complu (I did this years ago and it cost about 100 Euros a semester).

2. Look into being an Alumno Visitante at Complutense. Supposedly, they can provide a "Carta de Invitacion" that they accept for the student visa. One person told me they can do the letter in June. Another said that they only do it in September....

Perhaps you can ask for an extension since the dates don't match up... As I remember, there is some kind of grace period, though it might be tricky going in and out of the country during that time.

Thanks for the info on the 25 years test--especially the part about those with prior studies not being eligible. That will give me some ammunition for the "partial convalidation," since everyone keeps telling me that I should have just taken the test. I'm trying to pull all the strings that I can to make it happen, but no one seems to believe that it can be done... Can't imagine how hard this would be without contacts "on the inside." Will keep reporting back.

Well, I think I might have pushed this "get a student visa because it's the easiest way to stay in Spain legally" angle about as far as it can go.

I called the comisaría today to ask them what to do about my current "tarjeta de estudiante" (when they issued it they mistakenly put the expiry date one month before the end of my current course). They told me to go to the comisaría and bring my passport, proof of the end date of the course, and copies of my plane tickets out of here.

I went there today and had one of my worst waits ever (well over two hours in the line this time) and the lady at the counter told me I have to "renovar" the card. They want me to go back with a heap of documentation tomorrow which I am not too keen about because it will mean another wait in the queue and all of this because they issued me a card with the wrong date on it (not sure why I should have to jump through hoops because of their mistake).

They want two copies of the famous "Solicitud de autorización de estancia por estudios" (form ex06.pdf; download link: http://www.mir.es/sites/mir/modelos/extranjeria/documentacion/ex06.pdf) and also to see my passport and a copy of it, my "tarjeta de estudiante" and a copy of it, three photos, my health insurance card and a copy of it, written proof that I not only attended but also passed all my previous courses (unfortunately I only have a certificate for the first course I did, not the second one), and a copy of all the monetary movements in my bank account here since I opened it.

The fact that I don't have a certificate for the second course will no doubt be the stumbling block. Not sure what to do about that; forgery is not an option and getting a copy from the university isn't either because I never actually sat the exam!

This also could put a bit of a premature end to my plans to extend my stay here by enrolling in more studies which I've already discussed in this thread. Basically, if I haven't passed my current course (which I won't, because I haven't attended classes for months now) I don't see how I can "renovar" or even obtain a brand new student visa on another occasion in the future.

Looks like I might have to go back to being a "sin papeles" for a while.

Today the results of the exams for which I did "reclamaciones" were put on the web again.

History: 3%
Literature: 3%

So they gave me exactly the same score as last time. I can't really be bothered fighting this any more so even though I consider it to be grossly unfair I am not going to bother with pursuing it any further.

Yikes, sorry to hear about all of that.

But thanks for the info on renewal--I'll be going down this road in August.

It seems that the best thing would be if you could somehow get them to extend your visa before the Estudios Hispanicos course ends (classes end this week, but exams go until June 1st). Because right now, I don't think the Secretaria could give you any proof of attending or completing the course, even if you had gone to class. This most likely won't be available until June or July.

Perhaps if you got everything else together and then impressed upon them that the course was still in progress, you might be able to slip under the radar...

About the bank account... Do they require that there be a certain amount in the bank? I don't understand why they want to see the transactions for the whole year. That seems odd...

About my own trials and travails...

While in Florida this week, I finally was able to get a notarized copy of my college transcript (the first they have ever done), which I then sent to the Certifications Office for the state of Florida. They will affix an Apostille, which will make it nice and official for Spain. Then when/if it makes its way back to me in Madrid, I will have it translated officially with more stamps and seals.

Then I'll take this to the Vicedecano and/or secretaria of the Facultad de Filologia. I'm still uncertain about what their process is for granting admission (or "convalidando" previous studies) in cases like mine... Mind you, at this point, I am only trying to enter in at the primer ciclo (the first year of studies in a carrera). My literature professor said she will help me out a bit--if I can get my act together. More later...

Yes they do require a minimum in the bank. It's not written down on the list she gave me but she said "about 1000€" (or 1500€, I can't remember).

Back from my meeting with the dean of students (vicedecana de alumnos) at the Facultad de Filologia...

***For the purpose of this post, I'm going to use the terms "convalidation" and "convalidate" as though they were words in English, which I'm fairly certain that they are not. What it means here is that you are essentially transferring credit from a foreign degree or course of study to a Spanish degree program (carrera).

Here's the story: in order to get into a degree program (carrera) at Complutense with a foreign degree or foreign studies, one must either

1. Take and pass the aforementioned and dreaded entrance exam (prueba de accesso).

2. homologar a completed foreign degree with the Ministry of Education, which is virtually impossible to do with an American bachelor's degree and quite tricky to do with a Master's; or

3. Partially convalidate (convalidacion parcial) the degree within the Facultad where you intend to study.

I'm going the third route. I now have my US degree notarized, with an apostille and officially translated (traduccion juridica). Today, as I feared, I found out that I will also need to get the "programas" for all of the classes that I want to try to convalidate. That is, either the syllabi or course outlines. These courses must have a direct equivalent at Complutense within the "carrera" in which I intend to study. Then I'll need to get all of these documents officially tranlated into Spanish. It's going to be a major pain in the ass and quite pricey, I'm sure.

The good news, is that the dean said that they try to come at the process from a "place of generosity," so that those who have foreign degrees don't have to repeat the entire "carrera." She said that if you do the above, get your stamps and squigglies in order, fill out the form clearly, and jump through any other hoops--the odds are that you'll get whatever you ask for convalidated. The main thing is to make it easy for them to see the equivalency. The more documentation the better. There is no minimum number of classes that need to be convalidated and you can convalidate any course within the five year "carrera."

Luckily, I've got all summer to do this. I have to turn it in by the end of September. I can then do a provisional matriculation in September/October and enroll in courses that I am certain will not be convalidated. The decision gets handed down in November or the beginning of December.

I can see why no one does this... It's really a hassle, especially coming from a free-wheeling American background. It only makes sense to do so, if you know exactly what you are getting into and are relatively certain that you are going to finish the degree here (which I'm not, but I'm totally comfortable doing things that don't necessarily make sense).

But I do feel more confident that it will be possible to at least get into the carrera without having to pass the prueba. Hopefully all of the hassle will pay off in that I'll be able to convalidate some of the less interesting language classes (of course those are probably the ones I need the most) and shorten the carrera by a few years.

An update...

After my last message, I spent the whole summer getting as much info as I could from my US university about the courses that I took so many years ago. I got catalog descriptions and--in a few cases, evaluations and syllabi. All in all, what I was able to scare up was pretty scant. I then got all of this translated by an official translator (Blanca Calvo, mentioned elsewhere--she creates order from chaos).

At the same time, I scoured the course catalogs for the Facultad de Filologia, looking for courses that were equivalent. For classes that I took that were outside of the realm of filologia, I looked in the "asignaturas genericas" and "libre eleccion" catalogs (sorry, too tired to put in accents). Every carrera has a certain number of libre eleccion credits. These are classes that are offered to all students by other facultades. You can download these catalogs online or go to Caja Madrid and buy the "sobre" for your facultad. This is an envelope with all of the forms and catalogs you will need to register for classes (though not the schedules, more on this later).

In the end, I ended up asking to convalidate a lot of credits--almost half of the credits for the carrera. The classes that I asked to convalidate were from all five years of the degree and by no means sequential.

I downloaded the form online and carefully filled it out and printed it. When I got to the window at the Secretaria to turn it in, they told me that I would have to fill out the form by hand, since the one downloaded online was not valid. The paper on their form was essentially translucent, so it ended up looking like a complete mess, but it seems that that is how they like it and I've learned not to think rationally in these situations.

They took everything, conferred over it for a good long while, then told me that I needed several things that were in the huge stack that I had handed them. It went back and forth like this for a while. I got the impression that they don't expect anyone to actually get everything they need for to do the convalidation and they were mildly surprised that I had managed it.

A blizzard of stamping--the likes of which I have never seen--ensued. Each and every of the almost 100 pages was stamped and squiggled. They kept my original Apostille, but gave back all of the other originals and kept the stamped copies.

I should find out in December or January whether or not my convalidacion parcial goes through.

I was told that I could do a matricula condicional, which would allow me to register for classes. If my convalidation is not accepted, then my registration will be cancelled. The Vicedecana told me that while all this is being sorted out, I could choose any classes, as long as they weren't being considered for convalidation.

The system for getting into classes is pretty confusing. I couldn't find the class schedules online anywhere, so I had to go to the Facultad. They were posted--willy nilly--on the walls in the basement. Along with lots of other random and contradictory information about the dates that classes would start and the days that students were supposed to come in to register (according to the first letter of his/her last name).

After I copied everything down, created spreadsheets and figured out what I wanted my schedule to be, I filled out the matriculation form from the "sobre" that I had bought for 6 euros at Caja Madrid and asked around at the facultad until someone could tell me where to register for class. Everyone else was doing the same thing, so that made it seem less scary. Apparently, the business about going on a certain day is bogus and people just go when ever they feel like it.

I learned at this time, that I also had to register for all of the classes that I was trying to convalidate. I got shut out of some of these classes for one reason or another (some weren't offered, some required that I complete the first cycle of study, others had prerequisites, etc.). I am supposed to try again next year--assuming that I get them convalidated in the first place.

I got the schedule that I wanted and it is surprisingly flexible. For what I was doing, it was possible to only take classes in the morning or afternoon/evening. It works out to 3-4.5 hours four days a week, with some extra work on Wednesdays. You must take a full course load.

I'm sure I'm leaving out lots of details, but I just wanted to write this down before I forgot, because it is a difficult process with no handholding.

Next chapter: I'll report back at the end of the year when I find out how it all turns out...

I think you are going get your convalidación partcial because it’s easier to get it from el tribunal de la facultad than from el ministerio de educación. I think I once told you that I’m currently doing a masters en la complutense and I don’t have my bachelor’s degree convalidado. I’m going through a similar process, but this time is for my PhD. I don’t think it will that easy to get my convalidación, but I’ll try it! Good Luck!.