Hi everyone,

A while ago, Mangas asked about convalidating Spanish degrees in the US but I've never (surprisingly) seen a seperate topic on convalidating US degrees here in Spain.

Anyway, as I am still in my 12 a day (minimum) job plus 2 hours/day commuting, I finally decided to try to convalidate my degrees (BA Economics and MBA) using a lawyer.

My papers are finally in. I starting the paper gathering phase in May 05 and official request for convalidation just handed in by the lawyer one week ago.

I know Kristin is in this process too (thanks for your tips - as she was able to give me some good info when I was starting out) and has done everything herself. I think doing it on your own is perfectly feasible and easy...we will see if I get a quick turn-around thanks to the lawyer or not.

I cannot recommend the lawyer yet, as I don't know how this will all turn out. She has an ad in The Broadsheet which is where I found her. She has so far been completely nice, reliable, and professional in her contacts with me.

She says I should hopefully be officially "licenciada" or in possession of a valid Spanish University degree equivalent by Christmas. I will let you all know here on this site.

If anyone else is going through or has gone through this process, let us know your experience(s) please. I know lots of non-Spanish medical workers manage to get convalidated and set up practices here...

Looking forward to any feedback,

Val

hey Val, good luck with the convalidation.

quote:

She has an ad in The Broadsheet which is where I found her

do you think the lawyer specializes in this type of ex-pat problems and if so, is she more or less expensive than a normal spanish lawyer?

asking since i have always thought that it is silly to pay more for those ex-pat lawyers for anyone here who speaks spanish already. they are usually good for people just finding their legs here in spain.

unless of course she specializes in these types of operations in which case, it is probably well worth it.

saludos,
jer...

Val--
Are you convalidating with a university or trying to "homologar" via the Ministry of Education? Since you are talking about lawyers, I'm guessing that it is the latter.

As I understand it, convalidating recognizes a particular degree within a university--for example, if you wanted to continue your studies for a PHD or Masters degree, you would first need to convalidate a lesser degree through an internal process within the university. But this process won't be valid outside of that particular university.

Homolgating (not a word, right?) is more official and takes place at the national level and means that your degree has been made as official as a Spanish degree.

I turned my papers in for a partial convalidation at Complutense this fall--I'll hear back in December or January... If I get what I ask for, then I'll just need to take a handful of classes to finish up a Spanish degree (assuming that I can pass Latin Translation this year, which is not at all looking good).

Good luck to you! I know how hard it is getting all of those course descriptions, apostilles, official translations, etc. For sworn translations (traduccion jurada), I can't recommend Blanca Calvo (91 445 7640) enough.

Val!

Great to see everything's gone well, and I hope the lawyer helps speed up the process!

In my case: in the end, for work reasons, I decided NOT to try to "homologar" through the Ministry. Instead, I'm doing the same thing as Mariposita - asking for a partial "convalidación" at a university - which simply means getting transfer credits towards a Spanish degree.

I decided to go this route because my goal now is to get a valid teaching degree for primary level(Magisterio)... and hopefully do "Oposiciones" 4 years from now. If I had tried to "homologar" my 4-year degree in English and Biology, 1.) I had NO guarantees that I'd be successful, 2.) I was told I'd have to wait from 1 to 2 years for the Ministry's response, and 3.) a "licenciatura" is only good for teaching at Secondary level anyway.

So... It'll take me 3 years to finish the classes I need for Magisterio, but the program I've chosen is a "semi-distance" learning program (some afternoon classes), so it looks to be fairly low-stress (no Latin translation, for example). It's a private university, however, so I'm coughing up about 2000+ euros a year. Cheaper magisterio programs can be found at public universities, but the hours are not compatible with a full time job.

K.

Kristin--

I think you did the right thing. I don't know that it is possible to homologar a double major (Political Science and Languages here--seemed like a good idea at the time, but if I had it all to do over...). It is so at odds with the Spanish system... I think it's hard enough to get them to recognize a straightforward US bachelor's degree as a licenciatura, since most Spanish universities now consider it equivalent to a diplomatura. Val's case has a much better shot at getting approved, having a Master's degree and a related BA.

The other catch about homologando is that you can't hedge your bets and try a partial convalidación at the same time. Or take an entrance exam for a Spanish university. When I turned in my convalidación papers, I had to sign a statement saying that I was not trying to homologar my degree.

How long do you have to wait to find out about the convalidación? Did you have to go class by class and find equivalent courses at the university and provide translated course descriptions from your US school?

Ah, yes - I'd forgotten to mention those factors, but you're absolutely right: I highly doubt that a double major would be homologado as a licenciatura, given how picky the Ministry and universities seem to be about course equivalents.

Also, the fact that you cannot both homologar and convalidar was a significant factor in my choosing the "convalidación" route... If I´d tried to homologar, I was looking at an uncertain result, in an uncertain amount of time, WITHOUT the possibility of doing any university studies in the meanwhile!
At least through the "convalidación", I know what my end result will be (a "Magisterio" degree), and how long it will take me.

As far as how long I have to wait to find out about the results of my convalidación:
I found out almost immediately. "Off the record", they've told me which classes have been "convalidadas". However, this won´t be official until some sort of special commission meets in November.
Also, I did have to turn in course descriptions and official translations, but I didn't have to look for class-by-class equivalents myself: they did it for me, and let me tell you - they were VERY CREATIVE. I had thought it was going to be *impossible* to reach the minimum 60 credits... after all, my English and Biology B.A. has very little in common with a teaching degree!... but they found a way.
You might ask, Why has it been so easy for you?
Well, there's an easy answer: Money. It's a private university. They want my tuition fees.

Thanks for the feedback! Kristin, when do you start your degree? Do you skip over some courses since they convalidated some? Or, is it three full years?

I'd prefer to be able to teach at the primary school level, but if you have higher education (4 year degree and master, doctorate, etc) you cannot...only with a three year teaching degree. The system is crazy if you ask me!

I plan to wait for the homologation and then take the CAP (a requiered course for teaching) and then try to pass the civil servant exam for teaching high school. Its a long term thing...we will see...

As for the lawyer, she says she is a specialist only in education. The "proof is in the pudding" I guess. I work 12 hours and commute 2 hours, so if I don't pay someone to help me, it just doesn't get done! If she gets me my "licenciatura" by Christmas, then I can definately recommend her. We will see...

I'll keep you guys posted and good luck with your convalidations...I didn't even know that route existed.

Val

Just a little update.

One of my two files (I am going for just plain "university degree status" or "licenciada" which is a new thing and also for "administración de empresas") has passed the first stage and is onto the second.

The "degree status" file has had all papers approved and been sent on to be assigned to a university employed expert (the professors do this for a fee) who will study the file and decide whether or not my university degrees are worthy of being officially designated as such.

The lawyer thinks still that I may have this one approved by year-end. I hope so! The other file is still stuck at stage 1...

I'll keep you posted. Anyone else out there in this process?

Not in (formally) this process yet but it looks as though I may be pretty soon. If anyone can provide any helpful advice I would be really grateful.

I am a British citizen (i.e. EU, last time I looked!)living in Madrid. I have an MBA that I achieved a long time ago at a Business School in Paris, France (another EU country, I believe). I am ATTEMPTING to work for one of the big university´s here in Madrid. Yup...Madrid is a EU city too. They have just asked me for homologation of my International MBA. My contract will be for THREE months.

What should I do?

It looks to me as if the business of simply PREPARING your application for homologation can take quite a long time. Any notion of how long I need in order to prepare a decent application with or without a lawyers help?

What is needed normally?

And then, (did I understand this correctly?), the Ministry may take up to two years from the time of submitting your application before giving you their decision on the homologation?

Maybe someone can clarify another point for me. Is it MY particular qualification/certificate that is being homologated or is it the school´s MBA program or indeed the school itself? I realise this probably sounds either dumb or pedantic (or both!) but I just don´t know.

If it is the program or the school that is homologated then I suppose there is some prospect that somebody has already been through this before and that I have little or nothing to do.

However, I strongly suspect that it is MY MBA that is homologated (i.e. the most bureaucratic and long-winded of the possibilities).

And, out of interest, anyone know what they actually DO in order to homologate a degree?

A lot of questions I know, but if anyone can answer ANY of them it would be really appreciated.

MarkE--

I don't have any idea what your case entails, but I think you should get a (hopefully free) consultation with a lawyer to find out all of the steps and possibilities. I would think that given that this is an EU institution, you shouldn't have to pass through all of the circles of homologación hell (but I've been wrong before).

Could it also be that you can apply for homologación and that the university will allow you to teach before this is resolved (that is, while it is en trámite)?

It does strike me as ironic that you got an INTERNATIONAL MBA and Spain is requiring that you to make it Spanish...

Mariposa

Yeah....really makes you wonder whether the investment of time and money was ever worth it, quite honestly! And just to make things even more ridiculous, this is a NON-TEACHING post! Unfortunately it seems that if you hold a "foreign" degree and want to work in the public sector here you will be required to get your degree homologated. Otherwise you will not be paid according to your qualifications and will consequently slide down the pay scales. In fact, since yesterday I have agreed to do just that.

I actually started working without a contract about 6 weeks ago. So we are already nearly half way through the 3 month contract period. After that I will be employed by an institution which will be semi-private sector and we believe the homologation requirement will not be a factor there. So I have agreed to be paid as a non-licenciado for the 3 month period and after that the new institution will recompense me for the difference retrospectively with a bit of creative expense fiddling or something similar!

I just figured that if I could possibly avoid having to go through the fríckin' homologation process it would be worth a short delay in receiving my full whack!

Thanks for your comments marisposa :-) Glad its not just me who finds it completely barking!!

Hi Mark,

I did finally get my two degrees (a 4 yr US BA in Economics plus a 2 yr MBA) together convalidated as the 5 yr Spanish Administración de Empresas degree.

Also, it is now possible to get certified as having a Bachelors level; "licenciado" without matching up with an existing Spanish degree.

I used a lawyer who specialises only in Education. Her name is Mónica García Acón; telephone is 91 431 1814. If you want to remain in Spain indefinately and work in the public sector, its probably worth going for this. The lawyer will give you a free consultation. If your really need the convalidation, its worth paying the fee (at least for me it was).

I got my convalidation in less than 1 year, thanks to the lawyer. A friend of mine (with the same degrees) was waiting for well over a year with no success until he also hired the same lawyer and now has his convalidation.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Val

Hi Val

Thats really great advice - many thanks. In the end what has happened is that I am being temporarily "employed" as a student!! and am receiving a "beca" - it ended up being the most expedient way of getting me some money! As I am only being employed temporarily by the uni I can tolerate this in the short term. Where there´s a will, there´s a way, as the saying goes!

After this period of "study" (kinda makes me feel young again just saying that!) I shall be employed by a research institute that will not be subject to quite the same intensely nationalistic regime! In fact, as I shall be very much involved in preparing our job descriptions and people profiles you can be sure that I shall NOT be insisting on convalidated or homologated qualifications!

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

Congratulations Val!! So happy for you. Do you happen to know anything more about the changing criteria for homologaciones? I know the whole degree system is getting revamped in the universities to accomodate the new "espacio europeo"--I wonder how this will filter down to the homologación process. I would love to get my quirky double major homologated somehow.

MarkE--What a great and creative solution to your problem. Where there is a will there is a way is also my personal motto when dealing with the bureaucrats here. It seems that every system here is designed with at least one back door if you know where to look...

After reading both stories here, I am glad that it worked out for both of you. Enjoy living in Spain.

Shawn