Thanks for adding your comments, jopilar!

Quite a bit of time has passed since my last post.

I did indeed enrol on 4 March and the process was exactly like the lady had told me: collect the enrolment envelope, fill out the forms, deposit the course fee in their bank account in the Caja Madrid (690�), return with a copy of your passport and six photos and that's it. A few minutes later you've got your student card and a few other bits and pieces.

They don't have any course materials or info ready yet, but she advised me to call back before the course starts.

The only tricky part was the location of the office. If you've got a map you'll see that you can catch the metro to Ciudad Universitaria (l�nea 6) and walk north until you come to a big intersection. You'll see the Facultad de Filolog�a (building A) on the left. That part's easy.

The trick bit is that when you enter the building itself and turn left on the ground floor you'll go down a corridor and see a office with a huge sign on saying "Cursos para extranjeros". It turns out that this is a big decoy, and it was never attended on the two occasions I've been in the university. I presume this is the office of the dean or the director (it says "coordinaci�n" on the door).

The REAL office that you want is actually a short distance away. Turn right and you'll see it at the end of the corridor, second door from the end, left hand side. Their number is +34 913 945 336 if you need directions. Their opening hours are something like 11 to 1 or 10 to 1 and then later on in the afternoon, but I am not sure of the exact hours.

There are five levels. On the first day there's a test and you get assigned to a level. I am already nervous about it.

I found out that you can do multiple courses, and thus extend your stay. The course I've enrolled in runs from April to June, and theirs another course, "Estudios hisp�nicos" which runs from Sept to June and which only costs a bit over 1300� and is thus a very economical way of "buying" a right to stay in Spain for quite a long time.

So now I am trying to get the student visa. The main trouble is that it's hard to organise enrolment from Australia, but if you go to Spain to enrol then it's impossible to apply for the visa, which must be done in Australia! So here a couple of other bits of info which may be useful to others needed to send documents back and forth.

A handy DHL office near Gregorio Mara��n:

DHL Madrid
c/Mar�a de Molina, 1
C.P. 28006

They're open from 10:00 to 19:00 and in my case the cheapest and most secure way of sending documents back to Australia ended up costing just under 60�. Expensive, but I can track it on the way using their webpage. Last I saw, it was in Belgium.

A Sanitas office where you can go and organize some private medical insurance (needed for the visa application):

c/Padilla, 1, Piso Bajo
C.P. 28006

(Phone 902 102 400, Metro Nu�ez de Balb�a)

You can get "Sanitas multi" insurance for about 1� per day. If you don't have a bank account you'll have to pay by making a deposit into their bank account in the Banco Popular (just around the corner).

It turns out that you can open a bank account even if you don't have a visa (and therefore can't get an NIE). But in order to do so you'll need to present your passport and a statement that you've obtained from the Comisar�a saying that you don't have an NIE/DNI. Personally, I don't really have any plans of rocking up to the Comisar�a until I've safely got the visa in my passport and I'm going their to apply for my NIE and Tarjeta de Residencia!

So that's the next step... if all goes well should have the visa within a few weeks. Then I'm free to come and go as I please. So in the meantime, time to do some research and see what I have to organize to get the NIE and the Tarjeta de Residencia. Wish me luck...

hey Greguito, thanks for the great update, glad all is moving along well for you.

one thing...

quote:

It turns out that you can open a bank account even if you don't have a visa (and therefore can't get an NIE). But in order to do so you'll need to present your passport and a statement that you've obtained from the Comisar�a saying that you don't have an NIE/DNI.

you do not need the letter of non-residency at all to open a bank account.

see the thread HERE and open an account at my bank branch (see the thread) with just your passport

saludos,
jer...

greguito! looks like we might be classmates! i've reserved a slot for the spring course as well..but will be arriving in madrid on april 12..
wow about your passport..that's TAKING A CHANCE. good luck!
p.s. where are you staying?

This is great info--thanks for documenting this. My SO and I will be enrolling in the Complutense course for next year fall through summer. It seems to be a great way to go "legit" and learn Spanish. I did a similar course in Barcelona (for Catalan) years ago and I loved it. This time around, I am trying to decide between the language courses and the culture/history program... I'd love to hear your impressions on the program once it gets started.

About the health insurance... Is it possible to arrange this from the US? It seems that one would have to (if one weren't already in Spain and just pretending to be in their home country, that is).

And did I read correctly that it is $1 per day (??!!). What kind of coverage is this? Right now, my SO and I are paying over $700 a month to cover ourselves and our two year old son. I knew it would be quite a bit cheaper in Spain, but that seems unbelievably cheap.

quote:

originally posted by mariposita:
[qb]About the health insurance... Is it possible to arrange this from the US?[/qb]

It might be. They have a website at www.isanitas.com.

And yes, 1� per day, this is for "Sanitas Multi" which is comprehensive medical insurance throughout Spain. The coverage looks pretty good. Note this is only medical insurance, so it is probably not as broad as your all-round travel insurance, but for the purposes of getting a visa, they only require medical insurance.

And to answer your question, Pilar, I am in Plaza de Espa�a, about two metro stops from Complutense.

mariposita, not to get too far off the cheapest way to study in spain topic but, as Greguito wrote above, you can read all about the "sanitas" health plans at www.sanitas.es (available in english as well). enter the english version and you can look at all the available health insurance plans.

you can apply online by clicking the "On line application" link and they even have secure online payment but you will need a spanish bank account to set up the direct withdrawl payment they use here.

so, to answer your question, yes, you can apply online but you will need a spanish bank account to do so therefore most will have to set up the insurance after they arrive.

spanish bank accounts thread for my bank where you can open an account upon arrival in madrid.

saludos,
jer...

Many thanks for the response regarding health insurance.

Greguito--
As usual, I'm still a little confused... For the student visa--does the consulate issue a temporary visa and then one needs to show the proof of health insurance once in Spain? Or do we need to arrange for health insurance prior to our visa application? I'm going to try to contact Sanitas to try to sort this out further... as I can't see from their site how I can do it from here without a Spanish bank account.

And I'm still trying to figure out if there is any way to get a Spanish bank account before I go, as this would make many things much simpler... I sure wish I had held on to my account from years ago, but with those ridculous bank fees, I just let it go... Are there any branches of Spanish banks in the US?

Jer--
Thanks for the link to Sanitas. I just can't believe how cheap health insurance is in Spain. $100 per month for me, my SO and our 2 year old son for the classic plan (which is equivalent to--or probably better than--my current HMO). As self-employed people, we're now paying almost $800 a month. As the used car commercials say, with prices like this, I can't afford NOT to live in Spain.

As far as the Spanish embassy in Australia goes, they do want to see the proof of medical insurance before they issue the visa.

And it is a temporary visa (90 days). The idea is that you go to the comisar�a for an extension once you get into Spain...

Not sure if the Spanish embassies in other countries do it differently, but I don't imagine that there'd be much difference...

Thanks Greguito--
Then there must be some kind of workaround for getting the health insurance without having a Spanish bank account. I'll have to delve into this further and report back.

And, hey, if you stick with the program until next fall, maybe we'll cross paths. I'd love to hear how it goes.

Thanks!

Hey Greguito, so if you have a student visa you can apply for a NIE? And have you applied for the residencia as a student as well?

quote:

originally posted by GataUSA78:
[qb] Hey Greguito, so if you have a student visa you can apply for a NIE? And have you applied for the residencia as a student as well? [/qb]

I don't actually know the details of what you get when you go to the comisar�a. I've read in other threads here that you get a Tarjeta de residencia, but it is a "Student residence", whatever that is).

So here's the latest that I've learned after going to the comisar�a at General Pardi�as 90.

The comisar�a opens at 9 AM. When I got there at 8:20 AM the queue had already snaked down the street, crossed the road, and was working its way back up the other side of the street.

I would recommend that to minimize your waiting time you arrive at 9 AM sharp. If you arrive early like I did you will only spend 40 minutes waiting around in the freezing cold (or later in the year, the blistering heat!) before the line even starts moving. Better to arrive at 9 AM when the line starts moving (even though by that time the line will most likely be stretching off around the block). The line moves very fast at first because there are 8 internal queues inside the building, and they fill up those queues quite quickly at the start. If you arrive later, say at 10 AM, then the internal queues will already be full and so the street queue will be moving quite slowly.

Ok, so once inside I went into queue number 7, that's the student queue. I didn't know what I'd need. They told me I needed my passport, a photocopy of the passport and the visa inside it (make sure to do this before you arrive, otherwise you'll be outside again waiting in the queue), proof of enrolment, health insurance, and a Spanish bank account with at least 2,700� in it (I am not exactly sure of that amount, but it was definitely over 2,000�). In short, they don't ask for as many documents as the Spanish embassy does when originally applying for the visa, but the requirement for the Spanish bank account with all the dough in it surprised me.

In order to open a bank account as a foreigner you are legally required to present a certificate of non-residence to the bank. I tried to open an account without the certificate at two different banks, including the one that that jer recommends and was rejected at both banks.

So they send you to queue number 2 for the certificate. Despite what the lady at jer's bank told me, you can't just stroll into the comisar�a and pick up one of these certificates on the spot. What actually happens is they give you two copies of form number EX-13 ("Solicitud de certificado [Ley Org�nica 4/2000 por L.O. 14/2003 Y Reglamento aprobado por Real Decreto 864/2001]") and ask you what bank you want to open the account with. I choose Caja Madrid, so they scribble that on the form for you.

They ask you to fill out the form and return with photocopies of your passport, showing your personal details, the visa itself, and the stamp showing your date of entry.

In my case I didn't have all those photocopies so I had to leave and come back, queueing up again outside. There is a photocopy place just down the road. Once you leave the comisar�a you head back towards la calle Juan Bravo, cross it and keep going, and you'll see this photocopy place located in a basement on the left hand side. It's only about fifty metres from the comisar�a. Queueing up again only took about ten minutes this time, because the queue on the street had pretty much all poured in to the station and the internal queues were full.

So, once you have all that stuff you go back, this time to queue 1. They stamp your form, take your photocopies, and tell you that you can come back in 10 days (calendar days, not business days) to collect your certificate.

So for now I am playing a waiting game. In 10 days I can go and get my certificate, then go to the bank and open my account. It'll take 5 to 7 business days for them to process my transfer, and then I'll have to try and get some documentary evidence from them about the balance in the account (I don't want to have to wait for a monthly statement).

Then it will be back to the comisar�a with all of those pieces of documentation, and the filled-out copies of form EX-06 ("Solicitud de autorizaci�n de estancia por estudios [Ley Org�nica 4/2000 reformada for L.O. 14/2003 y Reglamento aprobado por R.D. 864/2001]"). No doubt having lodged all that I will be told to come back, but I'll report those details when I have them.

So hopefully the information in this thread will save other students from having to go through the same trouble I have. In summary: arrive at 9 AM sharp; have those photocopies as described above, including the photocopy of the entry stamp in your passport; download the forms, particularly EX-06 and EX-13 and have them filled out before you get there. Half the battle is knowing what will be required before you get there. Hopefully this info helps others.

No matter how well prepared you are, it seems there's no way to avoid making multiple trips to the comisar�a, but at least you can try to make each visit as painless as possible. One trip to apply for your certificate; another trip to collect it; then open your bank account and transfer in the money; obtain proof of the transfer; then another trip to the comisar�a to submit your EX-06 form... and so far that's all I know! Will post more info when I get it.

hey Greguito, you rock! thanks so much for documenting all of this here

quote:

... the requirement for the Spanish bank account with all the dough in it surprised me.

yes, they simply want to see that you have enough ��� to live on as a student without working.

i recall that being a requirement when i came over years ago to do my doctorate at the computense. back then it was 750,000 pesetas (much more than the 2,700� of today). i already had an account at a spanish bank back then so i had my mom lend me the 750,000 pesetas via a bank wire. the good news is that once the wire arrived it did not have to stay in the account very long. i simply went to the bank (had my account at caja madrid back then) and asked them for proof of my "saldo" (balance) and they gave me a letter with the balance. then i wired the money back to my mom in u.s.a.

i worked the system then and maybe you can do it now as well. just get the money in the account long enough to get the proof of balance and then send it back.

saludos,
jer...

Wow, does this saga bring back repressed memories. But what a public service you've performed by documenting it step by step. We'll be following right in your footsteps in a few months.

I have to admit, I'm starting to get stressed out about all of this bureaucratic stuff. I'm wondering if we will have trouble renting an apartment without having a Spanish bank account... And if we will have trouble opening a Spanish bank account if for some reason we don't yet have a permanent address... And would we be able to open a bank account if we don't manage to get our student visa via the Complutense program... And how am I going to keep my 2 year old from acting like a crazy monkey while we are waiting in line...

quote:

originally posted by mariposita:
[qb]I have to admit, I'm starting to get stressed out about all of this bureaucratic stuff. I'm wondering if we will have trouble renting an apartment without having a Spanish bank account...[/qb]

I don't think you'll have any trouble renting an apartment without an account. What they'll want is a fianza (a cash deposit), and they'll also probably want the security and stability of knowing that you want to rent the place for at least 12 months (if necessary, lie!). They'll probably also be more likely to rent to you if they know you're "legal", but having the visa in your passport should be more than enough to satisfy them. Competition for apartments is intense, so ring early, go there with the deposit in your pocket so you can close the deal on the spot if you like the place, and be prepared to have a list of possible candidates you've taken from the local paper.