Greguito--
What do you need to show to prove "Residencia anterior"? Just wondering what documents we might need to bring from the US to Spain. I'd hate to leave something critical behind... I'm thinking of scanning everything important (title to our house, birth certificates, tax returns, etc.) so that we have them digitally, but I know we'll need originals of many things, as well.

I'm supposed to call the embassy back this Wednesday to see how things are going with our Student Visas... Will report back once we have them in hand.

Thanks again for documenting the process--it helped immensely.

Megan

quote:

originally posted by mariposita:
[qb]What do you need to show to prove "Residencia anterior"? Just wondering what documents we might need to bring from the US to Spain.[/qb]

I am pretty sure that the "residencia anterior" refers only to residency granted in Spain by the Spanish government. I don't think it refers to your residential arrangements in your country of origin.

If you had previously been granted residency in Spain you'd bring your residency docs, but as that doesn't apply to me I won't be bringing anything.

OK, went to the comisar�a today for my 12 o'clock "appointment". This was the worst wait I've so far experienced; I joined the queue (on the other side of the street) at 11:30 and only got to the counter about an hour and fifteen minutes later.

They took my form, my photographs, looked at my passport, got me to sign a document in a couple of places (that will be used to make the Tarjeta de Extranjero) and took two fingerprints of my index finger. Luckily the ink comes off easily.

They gave me a docket and told me to come back after 20 June 2004 (about three and a half weeks) to collect the card.

It worked! We got our passports back with the 6 month visas affixed inside! We have to go to the comisaria within 90 days of arriving in Madrid to go through the fun process that Greguito has been documenting... but we will be legal as long as we stay in school.

We managed to arrange it all from the US and on the cheap.

THE COSTS (minus housing):

$ 100   Visa processing charge
E 1932 Complutense tuition for one year
E 90    Unispain fee for registering with Complutense
E 36    Fees for getting enrollment certificates issued by Complutense (12 Euros per certificate for three trimesters)
$ 10    Police record clearance from DC
$ 20    Apostille for police clearance (including extra $10, because the office refused to make change for a $20 bill!)
$ 15    Four passport photos
$490  Tickets to Madrid

$3138 TOTAL

So for basically $3138 each, we'll be able to study and live legally in Spain for one year. Many US universities are charging many, many times this amount to send students to the exact same classes.


THE DOCUMENTS. This is what I provided to the Embassy here in DC. It took a week for them to prepare the visa, though they said it could take one month (I think they are extra fast because it is an Embassy and a consulate):

1. CERTIFICATES FROM COMPLUTENSE--I got these in the mail through a company called Unispain . I paid them a 250 Euro deposit via PayPal (90 Euros of which they will keep for organizing the registration through the Complutense). This is well worth it, if you are going to try to do this from the US, as I think it would be very difficult to get Complutense to issue the certificates in a timely manner by calling or corresponding in the mail. I got three certificates, one for each trimester. It is really a "reserva de plaza e inscripcion provisional." It shows the dates of the course, the 12 Euro deposit, and 15 "horas semanales" with lots of fun stamps and squiggles to make it official. Since we are going 3 months before the course begins, it was challenging to get them to issue the Certificates early, but David at Unispain persisted and came through. Can't recommend them highly enough for cutting through the red tape at Complutense. They also arrange a program at the private Antonio Nebrija University. This program is a bit more expensive, but still a good deal. The classes are smaller and I think there is more choice about what you can study. I may switch to this program mid-year.

2. PASSPORTS--valid for one year.

3. MEDICAL CLEARANCE--from my doctor *on her stationery* stating that I was not a drug addict and did not have any infectious diseases or mental illness.

4. POLICE CLEARANCE--from my local government (DC) stating that I did not have any police record for the past 5 years (actually it said 10 years). I think you only need this if you are staying over 6 months, but I think it's not a bad idea to get it before going anyway, just in case you might want to stay longer and extend your visa. It would be very tricky and time consuming to obtain once you get to Spain. If you have lived in more than one place in the past five years, you might need to get this from more than one locale...

5. AUTHENTICATION--I then took this record to another office to have it "authenticated" for Spain. They called this an "Apostille." You need to specify why you need the authentication and what government will be looking a the document. It essentially makes a local governmental document valid and official in a foreign country. In DC, you can just walk into an office and do this. In Virginia, you have to mail the document to Richmond.

6. HEALTH INSURANCE--I had my current insurer (really our health insurance broker, since we are self-employed) write up a very basic statement saying "Megan Cytron is medically covered under Blue Cross Blue Shield. Following is the pertinent information for this member." He then listed our names, group and member #s.

In reality, our health insurance only covers two months in Spain, but he agreed to leave it vague, since we will be changing to Sanitas Spanish health insurance as soon as we arrive. Nice guy.

I believe a regular student could get something similar from their parents. Or if you worked for a company, your "group benefits coordinator" could probably write a letter. In a pinch, you could also also set up Sanitas or global insurance from the US, but you would have to pay and probably have it start early you can get the letter from the insurance rep (we're using David Harris .

7. PLANE TICKETS--I included a copy of our itinerary and had our original tickets (though they didn't ask to see them). It seems that some require you to have already purchased your tickets, while others may not...

8. PASSPORT PHOTOS--with white background. We provided four each and ended up getting two back. They asked for three.

9. VISA APPLICATIONS--You must submit three original copies with a signature. I used the " Formulario de solicitud in MS Wordavailable at the DC Consulate's website and typed my answers right in. I put the following:

Item 22: Larga duracio/Long stay
Item 24: Entradas multiples/Multiple entries
Item 29: Otros: Estudiar la lengua y cultura Espanola/Study Spanish Language and Culture
Items 30 and 31: I made the dates exactly one year, even though school will not run the entire year.
Item 34: Put my husband's cousin's address in Madrid.

If you do use the MS Word application, make sure to print it as a two-sided document. You may also have to change the font size for the responses to get them to fit.

10. PROOF OF FUNDS--We gave them our last bank statement. Younger folks can get a letter from their parents with a bank statement. Each document from the Embassy had different information about how much money you must have to prove that you can support yourself.

11. COPIES OF DOCUMENTATION--All of the above documents must be originals. You must also submit copies of all of this documentation. I gave them three copies of everything. I think they ended up giving me back one of the copies.

12. EXTRAS--For my son's application, I had to show them a birth certificate. I did not have the authenticated version at the time, but they didn't seem to mind. They just looked at it to make sure that we were his parents and then gave it back (unprompted, he said "gracias senora," we had him thoroughly trained to be as cute as possible). I ordered the authenticated version from the state of Virginia for him, because I think he may need it to enroll in school once we are there. For him, I also provided everything above, with the exception of the university certificates and the police clearance (he's two years old...give him time!). He has a visa in his passport that is virtually identical to ours.

Interestingly enough, nowhere does it actually say "student visa." It just says "VISADO".

So it's all over, at last. Went back to the comisar�a today at 11 AM. Another double queue along both sides of the street, another 40 minute wait. But at the end of it I got the card.

In all this process I've never really known exactly what I was going to get at the end of it, but I can now say that what I've got is a card with the word "Extranjeros" written over it and also "Estudiante". I've evidently also got a NIF (ID number for foreigners).

Curiously, the card expires in May next year, which is precisely one month before my studies actually finish. I don't know whether this is a mistake on their part or whether there's some explanation for it.

This marks the end of a fairly painful process which I began at the end of last year. If I end up having to extend the card or renew it I foresee more pain. All this to be legal! Funnily enough, I am just about to finish my first course at the Complutense (in a few days), and here I am only just now getting the card.

Ah well, at least I can now rest easy for nearly a whole year!

hey Greguito, mariposita and all who have contributed to this great thread.

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH for the contributions, your pain will be invaluable to others in the future.

One thing, Greguito, "NIF" is actuall "N�mero de Identificaci�n Fiscal", not for foreigners but rather something everyone has here (everyone legal anyway). it is a tax id number.

the diff. between ours (foreigners) and those of the spaniards is that ours begin with "x".

saludos,
jer...

Just wanted to post a little follow-up here... I followed Greguito�s lead and went to the comisaria today to get our "certificado de no residente" (so that I can get a bank account and can then get the student resident card).

It all went just as he said except that we went much later. We arrived around 11:30 and there was a line that started in front and then continued across the street (ask who is the "ultimo" to find the end of the line). The line was orderly and we waited about an hour.

Just as we got to the front of the line, chaos broke out. 50% of the people got out of line and started bum-rushing the place. We didn�t realize what was happening and waited patiently in line for a minute or two. Then we pushed our way in as well. We went straight to line 2 and got taken care of immediately. We later realized that the place was going to close and that�s why all the Spanish people in line decided to stop waiting and just go in. Very chaotic, but everything worked out fine.

So, going just before the place closes might be the way to go if you want to avoid a wait and have the cojones to push your way in...

Also, we received all of our Sanitas cards today. It was nice to have the English-speaking rep (see my previous post) take care of the whole thing for us. We paid by credit card from the US and the policy started the first of July. He sent them overnight to our temporary apt. Very convenient and he was very diligent in making sure everything went smoothly.

Agree with Jer, this is a great thread guys!

quote:

Curiously, the card expires in May next year, which is precisely one month before my studies actually finish. I don't know whether this is a mistake on their part or whether there's some explanation for it.

Greguito, Many foreign programs end classes in May, that could be why. You'll probably have a couple of options at that point. Usually when this kind of paperwork expires you still have a certain period (maybe 3 months?) of grace to either get a new one or leave the country, or stay as a tourist for the amount of time allowed citizens of your country. If you want to stay in Spain longer you could try and renew it arguing that you're still in school. But that will depend on how much longer you're going to stay in school and the certificate you get from the institution that guarantees you're an enrolled student until such date.
One other thing, if you apply to renew it, while the application is being processed you're still legal, once they deny it (if you're not a student any more, for example) you will still have that grace period to get out. It's just another way to stay a little longer after your id expires and still be "legal".
Lena

Back at General Pardinas today. This was the nastiest wait. We got there at 12:00 and left at 2:00 (just as they were closing).

We were waiting to get into the line for "puesto 8." During the summer, the numbers for the lines are all different. There's a sign up for the usual line numbers. Another sign taped under it with the summer line numbers. And then when you get to the front of the line, someone may tell you something completely different. It helps to say exactly what you want with no hesitation. Whether you are "solicitando" or "recogiendo" may make a difference as to which line you get into.

I now understand that before, when we were getting our "carta de no residente," that probably could have skipped to the front of the line outside, as this is the shortest of all the lines (fila #2).

In our case, this time we were "solicitando residencia de estudiante." This is the longest line (#8). We waited for at least 30 minutes inside and 15 minutes outside.

We came with everything that the embassy gave us with stamps, because they had told us that we would need to show these at the comisaria: medical certificate, police records, proof of enrollment and health insurance. Plus we had our bank book and a copy that had a stamp from the bank and a squiggly. And a copy of the first page of our passport and the visa and entry stamp. I gave the lady behind the desk the copies of all of these things. The only originals that she asked to see were the passport, bank book and school enrollment.

Trouble: the lady said that I needed proof of payment for Complutense. I (pulling this mostly out of my ass, though I think it's actually true) said that we weren't able to pay until September. She didn't say anything and began shuffling papers.

Then she asked for three passport photos. Greguito mentioned that they didn't ask for his at this stage. I happened to have two. Christian had three (the embassy had given he and Oscar back three; they gave me back two. Perhaps a tax because I don't have a Spanish last name...). I told her that I only had two. Again, no words, more paper shuffling.

She gave us back an envelope and sent us to line 5 (Huellas--Fingerprints).

Now, I knew this was weird, because Greguito didn't have to do this. But I wasn't about to say anything and went obediently into yet another long line. We waited about 20 or 30 minutes. Got to the front. I got fingerprinted. Then there was a commotion. What? We aren't "comunitarias"--in other words, we're Americans, not EU citizens. The nice guy behind the desk, got ticked off at the lady who sent us over and took our paperwork back to her. I couldn't hear what they were saying, but there was quite a debate.

He came back, told us that we didn't need to have waited in that line and apologized for the inconvience (I kid you not!!). He told us that we should receive a letter in the mail in the next two months and then we can come back again for finger prints and to get our card.

As with every encounter I've had of this sort, I feel like the whole thing could get rejected, because I didn't get that special reassurance that they were "on the case" that you get back in the US.


A small, supplemental restaurant review:

Afterwords, we went down the street and had a nice (though pricey) lunch at a seafood place called "El Cantabrico." You go south on Pardinas and make a left on Padilla, 39.

It's a very popular little lunch counter with a small space to the left with tables. Mixed lunch crowd of business people and neighborhood types. Really simply prepared, insanely fresh mariscos like percebes, cigalas, almejas, gambas, langostinos, bogavante, and about five different kinds of crabs. The quality of the food was impeccable. Tasted like it had just been scraped off a rock or plucked out of a crevice in Galicia. Despite the menu, you can order small tapa sized plates. Much cheaper this way. Or you can do like the two guys having a power lunch next to us and get mounds and mounds of the stuff and pay 180 Euros at the end! I just love seeing guys in spiffy suits eating down and dirty with their hands.

You poor thing, Mariposita! Total bummer. Try not to worry too much though. I am sure now that you've passed this hurdle the rest is just formalities. All that remains now is the fingerprint visit (the real one!) and the visit to collect the cards later on. Those are just formalities. I can't see them saying "no" to you on those ones.

Hmmm. Im a little confused. When I picked up my student visa from the Spanish consul in NYC, they gave me the health report and police report with some special stamp and told me that is what i needed to take to the comisaria.

NO mention of proof of health insurance or enrollment and they did not authenticate any of that.

I suppose I can take the copy of the enrollment letter that talks about me having health insurance, but wouldn't the consul have mentioned that?

Why does it seem like everyone takes different documents? Im still confused.

Kat

quote:

originally posted by GataUSA78:
[qb]Why does it seem like everyone takes different documents? Im still confused.[/qb]

I think the moral of the story is to take absolutely everything you could possibly imagine needing, and photocopies of it, just in case... It doesn't really matter what your consul or embassy thinks; the people behind the counters in Madrid are the ones who you are going to have to satisfy, so just bring everything you can think of! It might save you an extra trip or waiting in line...

I agree. Make copies of everything and bring originals. What they require depends entirely on who is behind the counter at any given moment. Best to come overprepared. Just give them the copies. They'll give back what they don't need to keep and will ask to see originals. I think what they are most interested in is seeing the passport, proof of money in the bank, and enrollment info. The only original that they kept was the statement from the bank saying how much we had in our account. Make sure you have a copy of the picture page of your passport, your entry stamp and your visa.

If you can stay calm and collected, you'll prevail. Each time that I've gone to the comisaria or consulate, I've seen someone lose it, because they didn't bring something. This last time, the security guards "escorted" a lady out literally kicking and screaming! It's best not to be that person...

It's possible that you could wait until September... I seem to remember my consulate telling me that I had 90 days to present myself at the comisaria...

wow you guys, this thread is so intense. thanks so much for creating it. i am hoping to enroll for the complutense course this fall and if i understand what you are saying i must:

1) go enroll at complutense in the extranjero program...and get proof of acceptance
2) get the sanitas program...i've been meaning to do this forever
3) get proof of 2000 plus in my spanish account

go to new orleans
4) get a letter from the cops saying i'm a good gal
5) get it authenticated by someone to make it valid internationally
6) get passport photos
7) copy everything
8) go to the spanish consulate and apply for a student visa
9) wait

once done, come back to spain
10) follow all the above steps for the tarjeta

am i missing anything major? i guess i can go enroll now for fall classes, unless the school is shut down for august, which is probably the case.

am i being unrealistic with my timeline? i know i can get sanitas and the bank stuff asap, but my flight back to the states is sept 25th.

also when you say they want your flight tix, that means they want to see your tix to madrid or a tix to and from madrid? if i am applying for three month student visa to start, that means a flight tix with a three month return which will cost a fortune. i was planning on just buying a tix leaving from her in sept and returning to here in oct.

okay, i'm sorry if some of my questions are redundant, i've read through the thread several times and it is a bit overwhelming. i hope i haven't missed anything.
thanks
Candela

Hey Candela--
They just want to see that you have tickets to Madrid. Mine had me returning in one month and it didn't matter. They just want to know that you are really serious about going.

One other thing is that you'll need a statement from a doctor on their stationery saying that you don't have any infectious diseases or drug addictions.

You should be able to get them to send the passport and visa if you want. You just need to show up in person to apply.

I've seen different things about how much money you need in your account. When you go to the consulate, you can show them money in a US or Spanish account. When you go to the police station in Madrid, they need to see the money in a Spanish account. We put in 3000 Euros each. and that did the trick here in Madrid.

Good luck!