Very thoughtful comments Candela and I take your point: I think what I�m really trying to point out is that for business English (as opposed to academy teaching) has very limited time slots here in Spain: the 8 to 9.30, then two till four (if lucky enough to get two hours) then six till eight, usually not on Fridays. This means that your time is very precious (also factor in the inevitable 40 minute trek there and 40 minutes back again), so your hourly wage is really very low anyway. I�ve been teaching business English for many years now, and I have seen wages remain more or less static during this time. I have also witnessed many a superb lesson from a newbie backpacker teacher, and some truly grim ones from qualified, prepared, career teachers. To my mind resources such as a well stocked library, advice, meeting, training etc. are not luxuries to be repaid in low wages, but standard, at least in all the other countries and continents I�ve taught in. The (business English) teaching sector in Madrid is underpaid and under-resourced and THAT is, to my mind, why the teacher turnover here is abnormally high: teachers simply can�t afford to stay here more than one year: if the normal wages don�t get them first then the summer break finishes them off. This leads to a transient attitude and consequent poor standards on all sides. I truly think that a teacher, even a new one, even a backpacker should be properly paid, and 15 euros is really a minimum hourly rate when you look at the limited time slots a business teacher can work (plus all that travel). It simply isn�t viable to work for less: those that try it end up maxing credit cards and having to head off to Korea to pay off their debts, and that just isn�t right. I accept that academy work is different, but for business teachers, I stick by my guns: 15 euros an hour is a minimum for everyone in business English (even newbies!)

Wow,

This thread really is going somewhere. I am impressed.

With my 12 years of teaching and tutoring foreign language experience, that opened up doors for me right away here in Spain. It showed that I had the teaching methodology down pat.

I use multimedia in my classroom (video clips, songs, powerpoint) as an enhancement to the classroom experience. Students really enjoy it because it gives them a different accent and a different spin on learning English.

I agree with you scooter that people should stick to their guns, but so do most academies that pay less than 15� and hour.

All in all, people need to find academies where they can work and receive a decent wage. That's all it boils down to.

More comments are welcomed on this thread since it seems to be heating up.

hi scooter,

yes, i am sorry i wasn't very clear above...if you are trekking out to a company you should get at least 15, and one way you can demand it is by realizing as you said, the prime times are 8 to 9, 2 to 4 y a veces 5 to 7. so, the academies need you for those time slots and the teachers are all working during those time slots, so...theoretically demand/supply is tilted in your favor. i do agree with you then, if you are asked to travel out to a company during those prime times, you should get 15 an hour. you may lose some academies by demanding this wage, but trust me during the heavy teaching season, launching in october, academies will be beating down your door. last october i must have fielded three or four calls a day from academies looking for just those spots. and i did let them know that i couldn't take the job as i was getting 18 an hour with another business english class.

scooter is right regarding bus classes. academies are charging anywhere from 30 to 50 an hour to send teachers out, we should at least be paid a decent 15 of that. but again, i think if you are a newbie teacher, it is better to start in a low-paying academy where you can at least get your feet wet and take advantage of the resources on offer. i have to say that my best-paying jobs have been with "consultancies" that don't focus on english. they haven't had libraries or even directors of studies. i was on my own. but i did it for the cash. i really don't think a newbie teacher could pull it off, but you never know.

you are right also, i have known some very experienced teachers that are just dreadful, and some backpacker types that were good, so i apologize for the crass generalizations above.

it seems like the real thing to do would be to get three or four really good teachers together, and call ourselves a consultancy and market out to businesses as private english consultants and then we can charge the 40 or 50 an hour. i know there would be lots of legal strings....or would there....ads in segundamano are free, right?

c

Candy,

You bring up a good point about the not moving part. Many of us are spending a lot of time on public transportation, but you know what. I REFUSE TO LET IT BOTHER ME.

I am looking at it positively and am learning the bus system.

We can gripe, bitch and moan and say how wrong the world is when it comes to English teaching, but what it boils down to for me is, CAN I PAY RENT? As long as I am making money and can save I am happy.

Call me different, but I am making sure that i don't get weighed down with what's wrong with English teaching rather than finding things that are right with it. We are not here for the academy, we are here for the students.

I know that many of you will disagree with me and that's fine, but it is this attitude that helps me to get out of the bed and face another day.

Shawn

hey redwood,
i hear ya! having lived years in detroit and new orleans with practically no pub transport to speak of, i feel so privileged in madrid with the metro, buses and trains. i also don't mind the commutes. i use the time to read, study my spanish for complete idiots book, watch people, grade essays, whatever. i don't mind the travel at all. however i do refuse to travel more than half an hour for less than 15. it is not worth it. that was my point. if you are going to the company, then your academy is getting some big cash for that privelege. and you should get a bit of that. 15 is not too much to ask in that situation.

c

Hey, Candy.

I am in no way disagreeing with the 15� and hour issue. I agree with it 100%. It just seems that so many people complain without looking at what's good about their situation.

If I focused on how much money I am not making with an MA and all of my experience, I would be one BITTA BIYATCH. You get the picture.

To all who teach English, focus on what's good about your situation and please let the rest of the crap go.

WE ALL HAVE A PLAN IN LIFE AND LOOK AT ALL THAT YOU DO AND GO THROUGH AS EXPERIENCE.

Hugs and kisses to all,

Shawn

It�s not often you see such a polite and thoughtful online debate! So it looks like we�re all more or less in agreement:
15 EUROS AN HOUR!!!
...spread the good word people - don�t forget, we don�t just work in the tefl industry, we ARE the telf industry!!

hey scooter...

quote:

It�s not often you see such a polite and thoughtful online debate!

yes, if you stick around the board, you will find that the members are exceptional :cheers:

saludos,
jer...

Well,

I truly think before I post on a thread and I am looking for the positive in everything. I don't have time for arguments and getting into pissing matches with anyone. I'm too old for that crap.

I am glad that people have maintained their dignity also.

Shawn

On a similar note...

How much would people say we should be charging for PRIVATE classes?

Cervantes

Dear mm'ers:
I'm looking hard at a TEFL course here in the USA, just to broaden my options once I get over there. I'm not terribly encouraged, reading about low wages and long commutes.
But can anyone make any recommendations on which TEFL courses are most respected in Spanish schools? Does having certification really make you any more marketable/able to ask for those 15 Euros?
Reb.

Just make sure it�s a genuinely accredited CELTA course - there are many TEFL courses floating about, but sometimes they�re not genuine Cambridge courses and therefore not worth all that much. It may not count for all that much over here, but in Asia, for example, it�ll get you a much better job. I personally don�t have one: I have been teaching for 9 years now and have only been rejected by one school here (Hyland) for not having a TEFL. That said, if you don�t have much experience, then a TEFL will definitely help you.
I think what will have more influence over what you get paid per hour might well be your legal status: if you�re illegal then some (but by no means all) schools can use that to beat you down by a euro or two. Also, don�t forget what was written earlier on in this thread: 12 euros an hour in an academy is still good money as you very often do 5 hour blocks in the same place so no dead time travelling.
One more advantage of having a TEFL is, if you�re legal to work in the EU, then you�ll be able to teach in the UK over summer to fill in the August and September lull here.

I'm not sure it's worth responding to a 2 year old thread, but here it goes.

My wife was offered a position here in Spain and part of deal was that I would go back to work and in this case teaching English (to suppliment her wage). In reseaching I noticed two things, one there is (currently) a real shortage of teachers, get your TEFL or CELTA and you can have as many students as you want REGARDLESS of any previous experience.

Secondly the reason why there is a shortage of teachers is that at 10 euros an hour you can't live in Madrid.

The reason why an Acadamny pays so little is they make thier money on teaching TEFL (or CELTA) not teaching English. so what if they can't keep teachers, there are hoards of people who are willing who are willing to fork out good money for the TEFL course. So an Acdamany which promises you work when you graduate and pays only 10 euros an hour has no interest in keeping teachers
I will be working for Trainexpress when I get my TEFL next month and I made it very clear I wouldn't work for anyless than 20 euros an hour (they offered 18)!

Part of it is I'm willing to work in Tres Cantos and they can't get teachers there. And secondly I did alot of research and lastly I'm not willing to work for 10 euros an hour.

Those that our succesful usually teach private.

recent ad in lingobongo.com

quote:

Hola, soy Jojo. Soy Neozelandesa y yo vivo en Madrid. I have been teaching for 10 years, mainly to children in several different countries. I am available as a Nanny/Governess or as a Teacher for adults. I prefer to teach 'full immersion' classes. My number is:646624179 or heyjojo76@yahoo.com

Cost per hour : 10€

Apparently someone hasn't spent much time here or in Madrid or they would know that you can't live on 10 bucks an hour

should we say anything?

Maybe they don't need to live on those wages! Maybe they want to do it just to get "pocket money", and enjoy teaching children?? Who can tell?

I couldn't live on the wages I earn here in Lanzarote, but they are a useful addition to the pot. Of course, it is way different here as the average wage, no matter what job you do, is 8€ per hour.