To all English teachers and would be English teachers,

I am starting this thread because of the image that English teaching brings to the mind of many people. Why do you believe that English teaching is not seen as a real job? Is it because . . .

a. it's not valued?
b. of the hours?
c. of the low pay?
d. of the running around?
e. of the insecurity?
f. other people do not see it as not a real job?

Here are my thoughts. I think that most people don't see English teaching as a real job because of their perceptions of what a REAL JOB is. To me a real job is not sitting in an office all day behind a computer for 8 hours. A real job for me is any job that I love doing and I like teaching in general.

Right now, I am a tutor at J. Sargeant Reynolds Community College in Richmond, VA and I am tutoring Developemental Math, ESL, English and Spanish. I like the fact that I can help other people to grasp a concept that they previously didn't understand.

Another point that I find interesting are people's perceptions. Many, when they find out that I am an English teacher, automatically assume that I hate it, or they thank God that they don't have to do it. I do not let other people's perceptions of what I do affect me. if they don't want to do it, good for them and that's more hours for me. I value myself and that's the most important thing in life to me. I don't care what other's think about me because the most important is what I think of myself.

I also enjoy going to different companies, taking the bus or metro and getting to see different parts of the city that I would've never seen before. For example, I've been to Montecarmelo, La Moraleja, Barrio Blanco, just to name a few and they all have special things about them.

The insecurity . . . Well, just about every job has some form of insecurity about it. You make the best of what you have and save and make sure that you have food in the house and a roof oevr your head. I, personally, since I've been back in the US have really learned to distinguish between my WANTS and my NEEDS. A very good life lesson indeed.

The low pay. I know many people who have so called REAL JOBS who have low pay.

In the end, what does REAL mean? Why are we letting our perceptions of what we think life should be like cloud out the realities of what we see. Before anyone jumps on their high horse, sopa box, or want to start an argument here, I don't care about TEFL certification or whatever. Please, let's just stick to the topic at hand. I would love to see how other English teachers feel about this.

Thanks,

Shawn

It is too broad. It's like painting. Some people paint masterpieces and most here just paint the side of their house a new shade of blue.

One reason people see it as not being a real job is because there are so many people doing it that do not take it seriously. It can be a real job if prepared for properly and administered correctly. Not just used by anyone skilled, trained, talented , native or not as a means to an end.

I mean here it is like a nursery rhyme or something from Mother Goose, where the people teaching English are the Butcher, the Baker and even the Candlestick Maker.

Thanks for starting the discussion, Rocco. I agree with you that there are many factors involved to narrow it down to just one answer. I wanted to get a discussion going to see what others think about it, but once again, what is a REAL JOB?

Shawn

I think it is impossible to say what a "REAL" job is. I think it is up to the individual and if you believe what you do is worthy and legal, than you may have a REAL job. The world needs all kinds of people and all kinds of jobs to make it go round. I am not sure you will ever get to a definitive answer for this question.

I agree with Madrid Insider, the reason why English Teaching doesn't get viewed as a real job, especially here in Spain, is because so many people do it because they can't do anything else. They show up late to class with a random article torn out of Newsweek that they quickly photocopy five minutes after the class has started. They wear jeans and t-shirts, go into class with hangovers, don't prepare, don't care. They figure, well, as long as I am speaking English, that is enough.

This total lack of professionalism that I have seen in dozens of teachers over the years I've been here is exactly why this isn't considered a Real Job....because they, these "backpacker teachers" don't treat it like a real job.

But, as long as there continue to be hundreds of academies aggressively selling their courses, and waiting to fill the teacher's spots AFTER they have the students, AND then offering 16, 12, or sometimes even 10 euros per hour, well....there will always be work for these backpackers.

Actually, I don't resent them at all, because of them...and because ALL of my students across the board have suffered these types of teachers...my students really appreciate my professionalism.

In my case, teaching English is definitely a real job and a lucrative one at that. But it is real, because I make it real.

If you want a parallel situation, I worked for 10 years in the restaurant industry. Waiters and bartenders are also considered to have not real jobs....yet, in a good restaurant stateside, a waiter can easily pull 50,000 a year....not bad for a part-time, not-real job. Again, the waiters I knew who took it seriously, learned about wine and food, showed up early adn ready to go...they were the ones who made this kind of money.

Anyway, in my opinion what makes a job real is the person who does it and the attitude they bring to it.

c

Interesting topic. I'm not an English teacher, but I can relate to what you are saying.

I haven't had a "real job" for 12 years. I cut loose from the mothership in '95 and never looked back. I realized that I could make more money freelancing (and have control over my schedule, days off, etc.) than I could working at a "real job". For me, it's all about freedom--even though there are certain times of the year when I know I'll be chained to my desk working on deadline practically 24 hours a day--I get to take real breaks and vacations when I want to.

In order to do this, you have to give up on the notion of having a stable work title that defines who you are. (At least here in Spain no one really cares what you *do*--I have always found it harder to explain the US.)

As Candy says, you can do this and absolutely make a good living (though no one will believe you who hasn't done it themselves)--you just have to have some talent, gift, experience, know-how or competitive edge that is in demand. You have to put yourself out there and take risks. You also have to learn how to save and account for slow times.

Here in Spain, I think this is good way to go for many expats, since the entrepreneurial, DIY spirit isn't a big part of Spanish work culture. We can exploit that!

Graffy, Candela, and Mariposita,

Thank all three of you for your honest posts. I am not looking for a definitive answer, just how others feel about this. I know that when people say REAL, that many think of 9-5 Monday-Friday and no weekends and working in an office. This construct is especially seen in the US.

Here is a quote from Oprah's magazine:

quote:

"One of the greatest feelings in life is the conviction that you have lived the life you wanted to live -- with the rough and the smooth, the good and bad -- but yours, shaped by your own choices, and not someone else's." by Michael Ignatieff

As long as I am living life the way that I want to, and I am doing a job that I love, I really don't care what people think of me in the long run. As Graffy say, as long as the job is worthy and legal, what's the problem?

Professionalism is truly lacking, as Candela says, in the English teaching market here. I will also take Mariposita's advice and take advantage of the DIY attitude that's lacking in Spain.

Thanks again and I look forward to reading more responses.

Shawn

quote:

I am starting this thread because of the image that English teaching brings to the mind of many people. Why do you believe that English teaching is not seen as a real job? Is it because . . .

a. it's not valued?
b. of the hours?
c. of the low pay?
d. of the running around?
e. of the insecurity?
f. other people do not see it as not a real job?

Personally I wouldn't care what other people think. the REAL question is whether it is a GOOD job or a crappy one?

I should add that I have always secretly wanted to be a teacher, but your above factors were a major deterrent for me.

Put it this way, I would ONLY consider doing a job that is:

a: not valued very highly
b: has high hours
c: requires a lot of running around
d: has little security

If I absolutely LOVED the job, or, if I was paid a fortune to do the job.

We all know that teaching is low pay, so that just leaves the enjoyment you get from doing the job. Put it this way, would you continue doing it if you were not getting paid?

If you answer no, then you don't love your work.

If you don't enjoy it, your pay is not good, and the conditions are not very good, then what people think are the least of your problems.

I have only been here for 5 months and so far my experience teaching has been really good. I work for a really good company that cares for their students and is particularly interested in their progress. I have lucked out and the pay is good and I am able to live better than I envisioned before I got here. My main reason to relocate here was not to be a millionaire so all in all I am happy with the pay.

I think if you really care and try your best, your students will appreciate that and really show you respect and a desire to learn what you are teaching them.

It is nice to see Michael Ignatieff being quoted.......... Proud Canadian..... LOL

quote:

Professionalism is truly lacking, as Candela says, in the English teaching market here.

The way I see it, this is a big advantage for those of you who are REAL teachers. Students aren't numbskulls, the ones who care can tell when they are being taught by someone who really knows their stuff and is organized. Word will get around. If I taught English (which I don't, because I am NOT a good teacher) I would try to liberate myself from the academies as much as possible and get private students/classes. From what I can tell by seeing others do it here, it seems to help to find an angle--that is to become an expert on a particular niche (kids, test-takers, a particular professional field, etc.).

Has anyone ever looked into teaching classes that could count toward university credit? People studying a carrera are always looking for ways to get "libre configuración" credits (this is the equivalent of an elective and you can earn them by taking classes at the university outside of your area of study or by attending certain seminars or other outside classes). I don't know what it entails to create a course or seminar that can give these credits, but it might be something worth investigating, because, from what I can tell, no one is really doing it for English.

As long as you take what you are doing seriously than you are doing a REAL job. Who cares what anyone else thinks.

I personally need to work to pay my bills, so the idea of 'if you love what you do, you don't need money to do it' doesn't work for me. Although I love this country, most would say the pay isn't the best. I think, though, that there are students who really do value their teachers and appreciate their professionalism and dedication. Every teacher is different and it's a personal decision as to if you are going to do the whole running around thing or work early till late.

I probably don't come from the same place as everyone else and this is just my opinion.

I have had students who have hung on my every word and cared about their studies, as well as students who showed up late and then proceeded to sleep during my class. It was important to me as their instructor to do my best all the same.

Like I started out, your job should be real to you. If not, you should probably find something else!

Thanks for more great responses and as I said before in my post, I don;t care what people think about what I do as far as English teaching is concerned. I make my job professional and I've been teaching and tutoring for the last 14 years.

Your responses are opening my eyes and that's great. I just wanted other points of view as to why it seeems that English teaching isn't seen as a real job and what you are saying is starting to make it clear to me.

Let's keep this great discussion going.

Shawn

I am sort of having an epiphany of sorts related to discovering the truth of what Mariposita says above (every word of it) for myself. As she says, until it happens to you, you won't believe it.

I think I've been so brainwashed by the American Work Ethic (beginning with my Father) that I'm only now, after 4 years away from the US, realizing that I'm doing better work, more lucrative work, and much more "real" living, not doing anything in the typical, 9-5 office way. Teaching English, and branching into so many other interesting areas as a result, has shown me the true power of doing what you love and keeping an open mind to the possibilities.

As has been said here by many, "real" is what you make of it. And I have learned in Spain in so many ways, that "real life, work, and love" are so narrowly defined by many people. Those who think teaching English isn't real, in my opinion, aren't really living fully.

One of the things Roland and I have always loved about multimadrid is that the people here keep it real...they put their hearts and souls into their jobs and lives, be it teaching English or whatever they may pursue.

Juliette,

Great post and I understand when you say "real" because I am doing tutoring at the moment and although the pay wouldn't be great to others, it's fine for me because I love what I do and when I get back to Madrid, once again, I'll love what I'll do there. I am just liveing life to the fullest and just making the most of life.

Besitos,

Shawn

I've been reading this with interest, as here in Lanzarote, teaching English is definitely seen as a "real" job, and one that is very difficult to get into. My job as a tour rep is seen as definitely not real! After all I only play with the tourists don't I!!! Perhaps I too, didn't see my job as real, after all I enjoyed it! When I stopped enjoying it, I jacked it in, as I do feel that if you work with the public it will show if you don't give it your all.

Maybe it's the UK work ethic in me. If you enjoy a job, then that surely can't be right!!!