Hello everyone,

I had planned to get my TEFL certificate through Windsor Institute, but I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. Can you give me feedback on the best schools for the best price (I think they're relatively the same price)? And also, is it a big deal to the employer on where you get your certificate from? Which school offers the best job finding assistance? Who has reasonably priced accommodation? Okay, that's enough questions for now...whew. Thanks in advance!

I think you can get the TEFL certicate online for about $500.

Man, that was quick, Chica! I heard about the online courses, but I also heard that those certificates aren't accepted by all schools and sometimes it makes it a lil' tougher to find a job. Plus, I hear that the non-offline schools(lack of a better term) will actually put us in a classroom setting to get practice (b4 we receive the certificate). So, I'm a lil' hesitant to get the online certificate.

There are at least 2 kinds of teacher training in Madrid. TEFL and CELTA. ITC, EBC, Windsor / Trinity offer the TEFL. I am not sure who else.
International House offers CELTA.
Other schools out here are Advanced Institute, but I am not sure what they do.
You cam also check www.tefl.com for some more info.
If you find out about anymore of these please let me know.
Rocco.

As a teaching professional here, I don�t want to encourage any activity that would make the profession "less professional" here, but I do think that you deserve to be told how it really is here. Let me first give you a bit of my background and then you can decide if the certificate course is for you...

I worked professionally for 11 years in the States and have a strong background in sales/marketing, PR, event planning and training. My undergraduate degrees are in Spanish and Psychology and my graduate studies are in education with a focus on adult training design and development.

I work here professionally as an English teacher without a CELTA or TEFL. And may I modestly say, I am successful at what I do. I have more classes than I can manage (or want to manage) and am about to launch my own consultancy (God willing)

1. There is a high demand for native speaking English teachers here, legal or not, certified or not. You must know this before shelling any money out for any course.

2. In my very HUMBLE opinion (seriously), I think the TEFL and CELTA courses are over-rated. And before those of you are certified get all in a huff, let me explain my reasoning. As one friend told me (who is certified) the only thing the course was really good for was helping to build his confidence level what it came to explaining the grammar and getting in front of a group/classroom. Any of you coming from a teaching/training background (although not English) already have the classroom/group presentation skills. If you come from a business background and are accustomed to making business presentations, you also have that "chupado". And as far as the grammar is concerned, there is no course that is going to "re-teach" you all of the nuances of the English grammar in 2 or 4 weeks. If there were, I can tell you the Spaniards would be lining up to take it. Relearning the grammar rules, to be able to explain them to a group, is an ongoing process. I spend my "free time" surfing the web and reading grammar books to brush up.

3. That being said, the TEFL/CELTA are tools that some places use to separate the wheat from the "chaff". It is not a guarantee that a certified person is a better teacher than a non certified teacher. I believe that teaching is a vocation and that to be effective, it must be something that you want to do, and enjoy doing. I don�t believe the ends justify the means in this case (the ends being making money here in Spain and the means are teaching English). If you don�t like teaching, you are going to hate traveling from class to class, get frustrated when the students don�t do their homework and also frustrate the students as well. Because quite frankly, if you don�t like it, it shows. However, from an employer�s perspective, it is one of the few ways that they can determine whether or not their "native speaking candidate" is serious about what they want to do (theoretically).

4. When would I recommend one of the courses? Well, perhaps if you are a recent college grad with little business/teaching experience and have decided that teaching English is something that you REALLY WANT to do (not a means to an end).

Keep your status in mind. Will you be legal or not? If you are going to be here illegally, you will need all the ammunition you can get to help bolster your opportunities here (you are competing against our legal British cousins) In this case, get the certificate.

5. When all is said and done, I don�t think it�s the "quality of the course" that is going to matter so much, as the fact that you have the certificate -- in the cases where it might matter.

6. Regardless of whether or not you are certified what really makes the employment scene here more precarious for you will be your legal status here. Those who are here legally (certified or not) will always get the creme de la creme jobs that pay the best. You will get what�s left over, generally the ones that pay the worst and have you grinding out the hours in a teacher mill.

Of course this post purely represents my opinion. But my opinion has been formed by what I have seen and experienced.

All in all, the decision is yours. I just think you need to make it informed.

If any of you other teachers out there what to chime in and offer your view on the teaching scene here, by all means, do so! Eh-hem, Tonytorero and Adrian, I think you could add another dimension to this "conversation".

Teacher training and all these certificates do not actually make that much of a difference in Spain, because everyone wants to be here for the weather and quality of life. People from all over the world, native English speaking or not, are more than willing to teach English as a way of survival here and the market is over saturated with people who are willing to teach.
This includes legal, not leal, native speakers, non native speakers, certified, not certified, experienced, not experienced, etc.
There are so many people who just want to be in Spain who are willing and able to teach English that average prices per hour are lower and most normal rules do not apply.
I spent one year in Korea and one year in Japan teaching English before coming to Madrid and there the average pay was 30 euros an hour, you could hold out for a schedule you liked, and having a certificate could get you cream of the crop jobs at Universities, but of course how many more people would rather be living in Spain than in Asia.
Anyway, if you are open to traveling around to different countries where having a certificate does matter or are interested in having something to fall back on at home, like ESL teaching, then getting a certificate is a good way to start off you adventure. It can get you better jobs, more money, and prepare you in how to teach more efficiently. But if you are going to stay in Spain or only teach as a means to an end do not bother wasting the money, because like Chica says you will end up feeling frustrated and hate what you do, so why throw your money away on something you do not really like.
Rocco.

Chica talks a lot of sense (in this particular post je je je) and so (astonishingly) does Rocco (sorry, Rocco, couldn't resist that one!).

As I fall into the category of "legal Brit but certified TEFL-free" I am living proof that you can teach English without a piece of paper. In my case, I work with a company who provide some basic training for their raw recruits, and a manual/guide as a resource to use in class.

I have never officially taught anyone anything before. The confidence with which you can present accurate information in a convincing and hopefully entertaining manner stems largely from your familiarity with, and understanding of, the subject matter in question. For me, the initial training I undertook helped tremendously. My own grasp of grammar was "firmed up" shall we say and the chance to practice class dynamics was handy, because that's something that's hard to simulate. Depending on whether you expect classes to be with individual students or groups this may or may not be an issue.

For me the value of a TEFL certificate might have been less about the raw grammatical knowledge and more about the exposure to teaching scenarios and environments, so I would have been asking schools how they did that. If you've been in those sorts of situations and you feel you can figure the grammar out for yourself with a good book (like Chica?), then as Rocco says why spend that hard-earned cash? For those of you not fortunate (?) enough to be EU citizens, Chica's thought that it may help offset this handicap is valid... but... it is still only a piece of paper. The demand may be great, but so is the turnover. Employers may use the certificate as an initial screening process, but feedback from students will be what really counts. In order to cope with the crappy hours and never-ending metro rides across town, you'll need to enjoy the work itself.

quote:

And also, is it a big deal to the employer on where you get your certificate from?

Your choice of course should (IMHO) be influenced by these initial needs as a rookie(?) teacher rather than by what standing the school's course may have (within reason - if everyone says it's lousy it probably is!). If you are thinking of using your new-found skills to travel elsewhere, then unless you literally finish the course and jump on a plane to Mongolia, your real-life classes will be where you really learn how to teach English, not the course.

Good luck!

Thank you all for the wonderful and detailed responses. With all of this information I've come to the decision that...I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M GONNA DO!!! I would like to stay in Spain for a couple of years. But if my adventure leads me, I want to be able to teach in other countries. In this case, maybe it's better for me to wait until that happens and then get that paper (most likely online if I've already been teaching). And no I won't be legal so in this case maybe I do need to get some ammo. On the other hand, saving $1800 would be awesome...that's about 3 months rent with some money left over for scooby snacks!!! Yeah, so I don't know what I'm doin'. I need to sit on this one.

quote:

I believe that teaching is a vocation and that to be effective, it must be something that you want to do, and enjoy doing.

I'm really excited about teaching. I've tutored in the past, I'm currently a dance teacher (salsa dancing), and I've had a career in business (advertising), so I know this will be my niche. Unless I'm in a "Dangerous Minds" or "Lean on Me" situation.

So, I guess I need to make a decision pretty quickly b'cuz I know the new school year is around the corner and most of the hiring has been done (right?). Okay, now I'm just casting my worries on all of you. Sorry. Thanks again for the responses. I should print this out and do a pro and cons sheet

Thank you all for the advice. I am really impressed and grateful for the wisdom that everyone imparts on this board.

I will try and get at least a few classes, to keep money in my pocket. I love teaching, I hate teaching Spanish in the US now. I'm just burned out from teaching the same subject matter and the same type of students. I'm not saying that it's going to be easier teaching English in Spain, just that, for me at least, it will be something different to do that will give me a new perspective on teaching.

The whole being not legal thing will probably put a damper on things, but I don't care about that. I have over 10 years of teaching and tutoring experience and I have to market myself in that way.

So, this is to say, thank you.

Shawn

Salsera --

For what it�s worth, I think the answer to your question is right here on this post.

This is what I mean...

Scenario A

quote:

I'm currently a dance teacher (salsa dancing)

If you can get in front of a group and move your hips without being embarrassed, you can get in front of a group and talk about grammar and English pronunciation.

plus Scenario B

quote:

I've had a career in business (advertising)

"Business English" (essentially English with Biz vocab and biz situations) is in demand here and you can use your professional background as leverage/ammo (brush up on all your advertising vocabulary and bring any advertising books you may have with you).

Plus Scenario C

quote:

I would like to stay in Spain for a couple of years. But if my adventure leads me, I want to be able to teach in other countries

Equals your answer:

quote:

...it's better for me to wait until that happens and then get that paper

The fact that:

quote:

I'm really excited about teaching

Is icing on the cake!

P.S. I love Salsa dancing!

And ladies and gentlemen, that's how quickly a decision can be made. Thanks Chica!!! I gotta get my CV together now. And I need to find a place to live (no more course accommodation luxury). Yikes!

quote:

P.S. I love Salsa dancing!

Do you know of some great clubs for salsa dancing? How about salsa dance studios? I would love to use teaching salsa as a fall back.

quote:

originally posted by Salsera:
[qb] How about salsa dance studios? I would love to use teaching salsa as a fall back. [/qb]

Salsera. You could always rent out a room for a small fee and teach your own private Salsa dancing classes to people. Here is a list of places that can provide you with a space at good rates if you decide that you want to give it a go.
http://madridinsider.i8.com/geninf/studioclassrooms.html
Rocco.

Lots of great advice given. Yeeee Hawww!

I just want to throw in my 2 bits if anyone cares.

I am actor, director, and PhD student who decided to come to Spain to live 2 years ago. I lived off of some meager savings from a dot-com-gone-bust job for much of the time I was there. Then I had to decide what to do for work when realistically it would take me much more time to begin to make my way in the theatre world there. I struggled with the decision, came up with lots of hare-brained ideas (like a hip-hop basketball pizzaria) but could never get it together. Finally, I decided that teaching English was, in fact, a good thing to do and probably something that I would enjoy. However, I didn't have a whole heck of a lot of confindence about how to begin. I sent out lots of CV's but with no experience and no certification I got no reply (no wonder?). So I thought about doing a TEFL or CELTA.

It so happened at the same time, I needed to leave Madrid for a while for personal reasons and needed to get some perspective on the whole thing. When a friend from Brasil invited me to come here and live here, I jumped at the offer and at the same time found a CELTA course in Rio that was affordable. It did help that it was more than half the cost of the course at International House in Madrid (and it helped that I was going to spend Carnaval in Rio as well).

I agree with so much of the advice on this thread so far. The primary reason to do a course like this is to jumpstart your teaching career and build confidence in the classroom. Since I am an actor, I have no problems getting in front of a class and teaching. I was worried about other things like grammar, and teaching skills, using a textbook, etc. Well what I really learned is that I shouldn't necessarily use my performance abilities in the classroom. That presenting or covering grammar actually may not be the best thing. I discovered that I needed more to learn the skills of ellicitation and moderation and to facilitate an emerging langauge awareness in the students. In other words, the ideas of the communicative method that are presented on the CELTA rocked my boat. Of course you can learn all of this on your own, but in a concentrated environment you may actually be able to put much of it into practice before you start working. For me it has been a valuable experience and worth the time and financial committment.

As per the CELTA vs. TEFL, every CELTA course is moderated by Cambridge University and who can argue with the clout of Cambridge. For this, the CELTA (and subsequent DELTA if you dare) provide an international standard that other TEFL courses don't have. That means something to some schools, but to many others it doesn't mean anything. And all the others are right in saying that it really doesn't matter in the end, that the market is so wide open, and that you will probably find work. The cert. just may help you find better work in a better environment, at least at the beginning.

Only one other thing to add. I said before I didn't get many responses to CV's. Now I am getting loads. Is it because of the CELTA, or is it because this time I now convey some deeper understanding of the difficult but enjoyable processes of both teaching and learning another language? Don't know really, but I like it!

That's my 2 bits for what it's worth.

My main reason for not doing a TEFL or CELTA course is $$$$$. If I do a course such as that one, then precious $$$$$ will be taken out of my pocket. Can't have that right now.

If I see myself actually doing a career in teaching English, then I will do a TEFL or CELTA, but until then, I just need money in my pocket and if my previous teaching and tutoring experience will help me to get an English teaching job, then that's alright by me.

I don't see myself in the teaching arena much longer, as far as the clasroom is concerned. I will still work with students, but in a different aspect. How? I'm not sure yet. But I do know, the way that I have been teaching, large groups, and taking papers home and dealing with administration will be put to an end.

quote:

Only one other thing to add. I said before I didn't get many responses to CV's. Now I am getting loads. Is it because of the CELTA, or is it because this time I now convey some deeper understanding of the difficult but enjoyable processes of both teaching and learning another language? Don't know really, but I like it!

Boneshaker,

I truly think it is a mixture of BOTH. I can tell, just by reading your post, that you are excited about teaching and that will show in your interview and students will write that in thier evaluations. It's good when you find a niche that excites you and you stay with it. GOOD LUCK, my friend.

Shawn

I have a very basic question:

what is the difference between CELTA and TEFL? From what I have seen, they are very similar.