The CELTA is moderated by Cambridge University and has to follow certains standards set by Cambridge. The awarding of each certificate also has to be approved as well by a board of examiners at Cambridge.

A TEFL course can be created by any school and therefore what you get/learn can vary somewhat.

It's the standariztion of the CELTA that is appealing to many schools and directors becuase they know more or less what the person studied/learned.

thanks bone! I think the CELTA sounds better, since Cambridge is so predominant in language schools.

Hello! I am currently a grad student at Georgetown University. Im a US citizen although i have another nationality as well. I want to get a teaching certification for when i go back to Spain upon graduating. I have worked in Spain before and might be getting sponsorship from my old employer for a work permit and all the good stuff. Question is: Is it worth getting a CELTA certification as an extra credential to have? While i was in Spain i made good money teaching private classes on the side, but feel that with certification i would have some better techniques. Any guidance on this?

I'm considering EBC for their TEFL program. Is anyone familiar and do you have any opinions of it?

a friend of mine just finished the EBC program. He said he liked it, but didn't give me many more details. i guess the program itself was what it said it was and did what it said it would do.

I've also heard good things about EBC. It's a small school and the classes are small, so you get lots of personal attention. And it's been around forever and has tons of contacts for job placement.
And concerning the months-old thread above...I read on a CELTA school's website that their Cambridge contract requires them to only place people in legal jobs. Which means fark-all to Americans who'd like to receive help from their certificate-granting school. This of course doesn't prevent you from sending out your CV on your own.

:cheers:

>And it's been around forever

Since around MAY 2003 - You could call that forever but I wouldn't

>and has tons of contacts for job placement.

A list of English Schools in Madrid!! You can get that from anywhere.

Except for the academies / schools offerring TEFL and / or CELTA Certificates and training that I have not heard about yet here is how it breaks down.

ITC - Based out of Prague. Have Training Centers in Prague, Barcelona and Madrid. Only guarantee jobs in Eastern Europe. Offer job guidance everywhere else.

EBC - Based in Madrid. Grew out of their already existing Language Teaching Service. Offer job guidance. Will put you at the top of the list when the parent company is hiring language teachers.

Canterburry - Based in Madrid. Grew out of their already existing language academy. Currently guarantee jobs and therefore limit the number of students.

Note: In Madrid there is so much of a demand year round for English teachers both legal or not that you will do better finding your own jobs for 10 euros to 15 euros an hour instead of the 9 euros an hour that anyone can guarantee you.

The rest I am not sure about, but would like to know more.
Windsor - ?
Trinity - ?
International House - CELTA ?
Advanced Institute - TEFL ?

This money issue has come up several times... what is fair pay? 9�? 10� 12� 15� an hour?

You can�t take the Euro amount at face value, you have to look at all that is being offered.

For example, it�s normal that an academy will offer between 7-10� an hour for teaching onsite at their location for "block hours" (usually more than 3 hours in a row).

On the other hand, the going rate for in-company classes is 12-18� an hour with the average being 15�. The place that I know of that pays 12� an hour does so by hiring only legal workers and pays their social security. i.e. legal contracts. Other places hire teachers, legal or not and pays them on the average 15� an hour for in-company classes. The teacher is compensated for the time taught in the company and the average class is 1.5 hours. So, take your 1 hour commute each way (average commute time as most in-company classes are outside the capital) and add it to your 1.5 hours of teaching time, and you are looking at 3.5 hours of time, for which you are being compensated 22.50� or roughly 6.42� an hour.

Teaching block hours in an academy... adding the same 2 hour r/t commute, four hour block you are looking at 6 hours of time, for which you are being compensated 40� (given the average is 10�) or roughly 6.66� per hour.

There really isn�t much difference. It depends on what you want to teach and how much traveling you are willing do.

Like many things about living here in Spain, you have to work out the economics of it all before deciding one thing is better than the other.

Wherever you take your Teacher Training in Spain be sure to...

1. Choose the time you come take your course more wisely.

2. Bring enough money to support yourself for 3 months to one year.
This will give you a chance to interview and put together a good schedule without as much pressure on you to take the first thing that comes your way.
Rocco.

Hey chica...you posted a reply sometime ago but you will probably still remember what you were talking about when you posted. You said the BIZ english is much in demand now..that was interesting to me. When I return to Spain, I'll need something to do for a bit while I improve my Spanish a bit...and teaching BIZ english for a while might be a good option. The companies that teach BIZ english are the same companies that teach coversational english or is it a different segment? Do you know if the compensation for BIZ english teachers is different than conversational teachers?

Hi TJ guy ... sorry to respond so late...didn�t see your post until now (after jer alerted me to it)..

The concept of teaching "Business English" is pure BS as far as I am concerned as is teaching "conversation". There is no such thing as Business English. There is English. Maybe British English or American English...but English all the same. Business English is English with business vocabulary and the teacher having a knowledge of working in business and relating to various professional/working situations.

However, most places hiring don�t differentiate. Usually when they say Business English, they are looking for English teachers with business backgrounds who can comfortably talk about business situations in English with the students and can impart industry-specific vocabulary (accounting, insurance, marketing, etc.).

So, in my "business English" classes, I teach English puro y duro... and then incorporate vocabulary and situations that are appropriate for the working environment. My industry-specific vocabulary is strong in sales and marketing/public relations/finance/accounting/non-profit sector/media (television) and social work as I have worked to varying degrees in each of those sectors.

Teaching BE (as it is referred to) can be done several ways... using articles from business publications that underscore the English concept you are teaching, or using a "business English" course book. There are several here in the Spanish market...Market Leader, International Express, Communicating in Business... to name a few. I�m not particularly fond of them as it seems that they concentrate more on teaching "business" than teaching English. It�s an insult to the national sales manager when you whip out a business English book that proceeds to "teach" them business.

Most multinationals want English teachers to teach Business English and not have conversation classes. In this area the market is getting more competitive as they are seeing an economic cause/effect (due to the EU) of having employees who can communicate in English at a competent level.

Generally speaking, the consulting agencies that hire teachers for in-company classes are hiring BE teachers (TEFL certified or not and in the end...they hire the native speaker, regardless of his/her business experience...since the demand is high and the number of "qualified" BE teachers is low). The compensation is the same 15� average.

Teachers who are "hoofing it on their own" (usually the legal ones who are duly registered with the ministry of labor and are paying their own social security) can command up to 30� an hour. However, most multinationals prefer a consulting agency over a freelance teacher. It all comes out in the wash. If you are earning 30� an hour on your own...you are also putting a lot of time into marketing yourself and client retention with no additional compensation for that "work". If you are working for a consulting agency it�s the agency that�s doing the marketing and client retention...you are just teaching the class. Economics 101.

The academies hire mostly native speakers... BE teachers or not. TEFL or not. Most academies do double duty... onsite classes for the "general public" and in-company classes as they have recognized the money and demand that is in the sector.

Anyway, I think I have answered your question in a long-winded way.

If not, repost and I will try to clarify a bit more.

quote:

originally posted by Chica:
[qb]The concept of teaching "Business English" is pure BS as far as I am concerned as is teaching "conversation". There is no such thing as Business English. There is English. Maybe British English or American English...but English all the same...[/qb]

Chica. I could not agree with you more. All of the different names for labeling English teaching are just invented as a marketing tool to sell the same old product. You can take a piece of poop wrap it up with a pretty bow and sprinkle it with powder, but it is still a piece of poop.
The only thing that changes from one kind of English to the next is just the book & material you use to teach from.
Use a business book and teach business people and presto change-o it is business English.
Use a Medical book and teach doctors and nurses and abra-cadabra it is Medical English.
Use test preperation books / material and shazam it is test preparation.
Most books have teachers guides / manuals that explain exactly how to use each of the books and teach the lessons by the letters and numbers.
This is teaching by numbers like painting by numbers.
If you can follow the instructions and execute them almost anyone with minimal preperation can do it.
Rocco.

Chica, excellent info but 1 question.

you wrote...

quote:

... Generally speaking, the consulting agencies that hire teachers for in-company classes are hiring BE teachers (TEFL certified or not and in the end...they hire the native speaker, regardless of his/her business experience...since the demand is high and the number of "qualified" BE teachers is low). The compensation is the same 15� average.

ok, if since the demand is high and the number of "qualified" BE teachers is low, why do they make the same money (15�/hour)

high demand + low supply should raise the price of the teacher.

saludos,
jer...

In theory, you are right jer...

high demand and low supply should mean higher rates... but one also needs to consider how the English teacher hiring priority of most consulting agencies affects the rates.

From my experience, and anyone who has other insight, please jump in, I have observed the following hiring priorities (for in-company classes):

1. Native speaker
2. Certified and/or business experience/background
3. Years of experience

Consulting firms are looking for the ideal candidate: one who has all of the above characteristics and who is willing to accept the going rate (of more or less 15� an hour. The range is really 15-18� an hour with 15� being the most common for those teaching under the table). The characteristic of least importance is the number of years teaching if the candidate can demonstrate either TEFL certification or business experience. One thing clear is that the greatest importance is placed on English being the native language. Although the market isn�t awash with English teachers with business backgrounds, it definitely is flooded with native speaking teachers. So most consulting agencies (to support what Rocco wrote) will hire a mere native speaking teacher and tell them to use a �business English� course book (believing that if you can follow the teacher�s guide, then anyone can be a teacher) if the one with the business background or TEFL certificate doesn�t like the pay rate. Since the majority of �freelance� English teachers aren�t really registered with the Ministry of Labor and aren�t paying their taxes, they don�t really have a lot to stand on when they try to negotiate a higher wage per hour. Unethical consulting agencies (a good percentage of them) know this and use it to their advantage.

So, in the end, if you aren�t working under legal circumstances (that includes teachers from the UK who aren�t registered with the Ministry of Labor), it is difficult to command a higher wage per hour than the standard rate.

The teachers that I know who are commanding upwards of 30� an hour are those who are working under demonstrably legal conditions (registered, paying taxes and social security). Of course it is only those who are looking at English teaching as a serious profession and have obtained a degree of stablility in doing so that register with the Ministry of Labor due to the tax costs and social security costs that are associated with being registered freelance.

Hope this helps to clear up any confusion!... and the above post applies largely to in-company classes, not private classes.