Yes, a highly controversial topic, I know. I would like some input on the current wave, laws, rules, regulations, trends, etc., regarding smoking/non-smoking areas, in, for example, establishments, restaurants, tapas bars, movies, etc., etc. similar to the enforcement made on Metro Madrid.
Well, as far as smoking is concerned, over here in London England, it's now very tightly controlled, there are not many places left where one can still smoke now.
I mean just about everywhere you go in London there are no smoking areas in most places, and many are banning it all together from there premises, and very many other public places where you might normally stand or sit & smoke have also got a lot more no smoking stickers & signs up, and so over the last several years it has become increasingly more difficult for committed smokers to satisfy their addiction, which I think in the long run is for the best, as it will ultimately encourage smokers to quit, I did, almost two years now, and although I am totally against people being forced into doing things against their free will.
I'm kind of glad that I had that element of social pressure from various quarters in society, even though it was quite bloody annoying at times, over the top and out of order, but I think that ultimately it helped me to see that what I was doing was just simply no good, for me or anyone else, and now I occasionally try to encourage other smokers to stop, to at least give it a try, for their own sake, but I do not harass any smoker in any way, as I feel that is wrong and not the way to go about doing things, and just causes committed smokers to become even more determined to smoke.
One thing I will say about Spain, is that with all the travels that I have had all round the big cities and smaller towns, I have been appalled at the extraordinary number of smokers in just about every place that you can find to sit or stand, and that really was one of the things that finally put me right off of the idea of smoking, I mean, that is something which really impacted on me in a very big way a few years back, when every time I was in either Barcelona or Madrid, and Queuing up in a place, any place, Mac's or Burger Kings, Pans & Co, wherever, whenever, all I could see was a room packed full of smokers, old & young alike, sitting, standing, in the queue, at the counter making their order, all puffing away like there was no tomorrow or something, and that really threw me, I just couldn't (and still cannot) understand how there can be so many excessive & blatant smokers in one country, without seemingly any form of control whatsoever, I mean they were even smoking in areas designated as no smoking areas, but nobody seemed to give a royal damn, not even the cops standing there, and even now in 2005, I'm still finding places all over, where hoards of people are gathering what for what seems to be the national smoking convention.
I was just in Zaragoza for two weeks, and the only Bars & cafeterias that I could find, all had their doors firmly closed (because of the air-conditioners) and full of smokers, in fact it is one of the main things that I found to be quite disappointing about the place, which is really very sad, because it is such a lovely City, but there seems to be an incredible number of determined smokers there, as there are in both Madrid & Barcelona, those three cities seem to have the same problem in so far as the total number of smokers is concerned, and when I'm walking around in either Madrid or Barcelona, I often find myself stuck behind so many smokers in so many places, if I stop outside a shop window for a minute (as I did on Fuencarral in June) I am suddenly surrounded by 4 or 5 smokers all lit-up, and I just have to move, I mean it really is a joke in Spain.
I just don't know what the hell it is over there, there are just so many smokers, and they really do not seem to give a royal damn as to whether or not they are bothering anybody else with the smoke.
Now me personally, when I did smoke, I always made the effort to keep it away from others, and went out of my way to make sure the it was not bothering anyone, and to my knowledge I never did, but that's not the experience that I have had in Spain, too many smokers over there just don't give a hoot what anybody thinks, which is very sad indeed.
And you know what, last year in the summer of 2004 in June/July, I was passing through Madrid-Barajas Airport, and went into the Cafeteria for a Coffee, sat down in the NO Smoking area, and what did I see? 7 or 8 people smoking merrily, with ashtrays on the table, and I nearly went ape, I had to call the supervisor over, and tell her that this is a no smoking area, and would she please tell the smokers to move out of here, and she just shrugged her shoulders, so I had to insist that she do it or I would make a complaint, so she then went round and reminded them all about the (Obvious for all to see) no smoking signs, and they just ignored her, and me. What more can I say?
I and we can only hope that one day sense will prevail, and all these people who think that they are being clever will suddenly wake up to the reality of it, as I did.
Now I do not want any of you smokers out there to jump down my throat, as I said before, I have absolutely nothing against smokers, and will not try to infringe their right/s to smoke etc, and will not dictate to anybody about what they should or should not do. I was a smoker and know what it is like to have people getting in your face about something that you like to do, so as far as I'm concerned smokers can do whatever they like, but not in my face either, that's all I would like to see, places where I can go, where there are no hoards of smokers packing the place out, that's all really.
Now,.....back to the records...
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Posts: 696 | Location: Santander | Registered: 11 August 2003
hey Sylvia2006, yes, a controversial topic but a very current one.
currently, there is no smoking in the workplace but companies had to provide a smoking room in the building.
just tonight on the news (half hour ago) they said that as of jan. 1st, the smoking rooms will disappear from the companies and smoking employees will have no place to smoke but outdoors. the smokers are lobbying against this new law saying they need a place to smoke indoors so as not to freeze in winter but it does not look good for them.
i do feel i need to say that smoking is detrimental to productivity in the workplace. ena, for example, works in a big company and they have a smoking room for the employees who want to smoke. if the average smoking employee takes about 10 cigarette breaks during an 8 hour shift and each break lasts 10 minutes. that adds up to approx. 100 minutes (1hr. and 40 minutes) that the smoking employee wastes on the ciggies.
it is also not fair that the non-smoking employees have to pick up the slack that the smoking ones leave and have to work 8o minutes more per day i always tell ena that she needs to carry around a fake cig and take a bunch of breaks like the smokers and just relax or have a coffee during those breaks.
in restaurants it is mixed. some have only normal areas where people can smoke if they want, some have smoking and non-smoking sections (which as member Roland says, is like putting a peeing and non-peeing section in a swimming pool ) and some (very few) have a smoke free policy (NO SMOKING ANYWHERE).
as for bars, smoking can and does go on in all of them.
there is no smoking allowed in movie theaters as far as i know.
even the madrid airport has smoking areas which are useless since when people smoke in them, the smoke goes all over the place and most people do not respect them anyway and just smoke wherever they like.
amongst other countries, on our honeymoon ena and i were in italy and there was no smoking ANYWHERE. it was a JOY, restaurants and even many bars had many no smoking signs all over and it was ENFORCED.
imho, spain will follow but it will take some time as there is a LOT of resistence to the new and progressively stricter laws. then again, in italy there was a lot of resistence as well.
Santi is right, a HUGE amt. of spaniard smoke. i do not know exact percentages but it is HIGH. in madrid, i notice the smell of cig smoke even in the air outside when i walk through heavily visited areas (puerta del sol for example). who would have thought we would have to go underground (metro) to get a breath of fresh air
these days there are however a lot more ads. (tv, newspapers, etc...) for methods and treatments to quite smoking and i think that more and more spaniards are becoming "enlightened".
Here she is the nasty nasty smoker!!! And no I am not going to jump down anyones throat either!!!! I for one do not smoke where I am not allowed to, I use the smoking areas in Barajas Airport when I come through there. I appreciate that it is offensive to non smokers, but I do feel that if I stick to the "rules" I do have as much right to smoke as non smokers have not to!!!! As Santi says, if he is surrounded by 4 or 5 smokers, then he has to move. That to me is fine, they are smoking in a designated smoking space and it is his choice not to be there. I will do the same, but in reverse!!!!!
Smoking in the workplace, as jer says it is very unfair that the smokers take time out to smoke, but I would say that I doubt too many people have 10 x 10 min fag breaks in an 8 hour shift? If that is the case, then there is the same opportunity for the non smoker to have the same breaks surely?
Smoking in Spain will always be an emotive subject; as jer says the percentage of smokers is incredibly high. Perhaps rather than cut down on where one can smoke, if taxes on cigarettes where made so high it hurt the pocket as well as the lungs, that percentage would come down? At the moment I pay just over 8€ for a carton of cigarettes so they obviously don´t have much affect on my weekly budget
________________________________________ Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional
I developed an allergy to smoke recently, and while in Spain this year, I would quietly move to a "not so smokey" area.
quote:
I'm kind of glad that I had that element of social pressure from various quarters in society, even though it was quite bloody annoying at times, over the top and out of order, but I think that ultimately it helped me to see that what I was doing was just simply no good,
Glad to hear it; not only for you, for others, and, well, the planet too...
,[/quote]I mean it really is a joke in Spain, I just don't know what the hell it is over there, there are just so many smokers, and they really do not seem to give a royal damn as to whether or not they are bothering anybody else with the smoke.,[/quote]
My experience exactly. I'm glad to hear that the "pressure" was on in Italy too.
,[/quote]...the smoking rooms will disappear from the companies and smoking employees will have no place to smoke but outdoors. the smokers are lobbying against this new law saying they need a place to smoke indoors so as not to freeze in winter...,[/quote]
Over the past several years, Toronto gradually eliminated smoking in the City. First, it was as Jer mentioned, sectioned off in work places. Gotta love those lobbiers. HA! Spanish smokers should try a winter in Toronto smoking outside! (Last year, record lows were reported at minus 38C). Now, Toronto is debating a 9 foot door rule, whereby smokers are to clear at least 9 feet from, say, an office entrance door. There is no smoking in bars, restaurants (some restos have glass partitioned sections for smokers), the metro, underground walkways (a.k.a. "shopping malls" for which we have hundreds of miles - hence the cold winter), grocery stores, shops, office buildings, banks, the airport, etc. The price of cigarettes, and the tax on them also increased extremely (couldn't quote you on the prices). Imagine that!
but I would say that I doubt too many people have 10 x 10 min fag breaks in an 8 hour shift?
you would be surprised sue. at LEAST they take a cig break per hour and even if they fast smoke it, it in 5 mins, it comes to 40 mins/day, still a waste of time.
quote:
If that is the case, then there is the same opportunity for the non smoker to have the same breaks surely?
and no, unfortunatley, since they do not smoke, they could not justify those breaks so they cannot take them. so, by allowing the ciggie breaks, essentially the company is sending across the message that it is a disadvantage to be a non-smoker
Well I do think that is very unfair for ena and the other non smokers. Is it just an unwritten rule that the smokers can hop off for a fag whenever they want? When I have worked in non-smoking offices there has been a break in the morning, a lunch break, and a break in the afternoon, and that is the only time I would leave for a cigarette. Of course if there were any errands to run I would always volunteer . I was going to say perhaps ena could pretend to have started smoking, but if she had to then sit in a stinky old smoking room it would defeat the object.
________________________________________ Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional
Sylvia2006, nobody said that only smokers get work breaks here , i said that only smokers get smoking breaks.
let me clarify, they take many more small breaks than the non-smokers as they "need" to smoke and cannot do it at their work stations.
that is all i was saying.
yes, ena has here coffee break in the morning and her lunch break and those are breaks that EVERYONE can take, smoker or not. it is the small breaks for the cigs all day that i was saying are unproductive in the workplace.
with the new anti-tabaco law, small bars, cafes and restaurants will have to decide and either make their businesses smoking or non-smoking.
if they opt to make them smoking, children will not be allowed in.
wedding banquet halls will have to decide as well. since it is traditional for men to smoke a cigar at weddings here, that practice may become a thing od the past since weddings tend to have children, couples will have to choose the non-smoking banquet hall so that kids can go and hence, no smoking.
i feel like a pioneer since ena and i had expressly written on our wedding invitations that smoking would be prohibited throughout the ceremony and the banquet. we stuck to our guns and our guests respected our wishes
My company has been a no-smoking area for eight years now. We have to go to outside if we want to smoke, and we have two fixed times we can do so: 11am and 17pm, five minutes each time.
Of course everybody can take this breaks, and many non-smokers do so - and, incidentally, they usually take longer than us
Thank you Jer for starting a list of places I will not go in the future
Posts: 648 | Location: Madrid Spain | Registered: 30 April 2004
I'd just like to add one small thing to this subject, as I have already voiced my opinion on it plenty enough before on the forums, but as with in September, I have just returned today from a business trip to Zaragoza...(to chill-out as well, and do some shopping & lunch etc)...and as I observed then in Septiembre, I was appalled at the gross number of smokers all over the city, young & old alike, Cafeterias were as packed with them as ever before, and while I was doing some shopping at the main shopping mall or "Centro Comercial" called the "La Augusta" right next to the main Renfe station Delicias, I just could not believe how bad it was in there, with so many blatantly standing there smoking right under the noses of the security guys who had no intention of saying a word, even though there are no smoking posters all over the place, nobody there seems to give a hoot about the current ligislation, even teenage girls.
Since I've been going to Zaragoza, I have been dismayed at the fact that I often cannot find one single place where I could stand or sit, where I was not surrounded by at least 3 or 4 people smoking, and I don't really get the impression from anybody there, that they are very keen on this new law, prohibiting them from doing something that they seem to feel or think is their right to do, (which of course it is) but not to the extent that it is really bothering a lot of other people living/working/ and/or visiting in Zaragoza (which it is & has been for far too long) and so now it has got to the stage where, if the smokers there will not listen when asked nicely, and will not change when offered sincere encouragement to do so, then the time has come when they just have to be told, and/or forced by local or national legislation, and this is what has just happened, and I can see now, that in Zaragoza, they don't like it a whole lot, but at the end of day, it has been epidemic there for far too long, and too many non smokers have been complaining about it, for it not to be dealt with in this way, I literally could not find one single Cafeteria or bar, in which I could sit and enjoy a cup of coffee, simply because of the fact that it had 100% of it's customers in there smoking like they had no tomorrow, and it hit you in the face the second that you opened the door.
But now, all that will have to change, the Augusta centre has totally banned smoking in all areas, as have many other places, and only time will tell how this is going to be taken by all those obsessive compulsive smokers over there.
I wish them well, I really do, I was a smoker too, not too heavy though, not excessive, but I do feel for them, and pity them as well, but at the same time, I am fed-up with them, they are preventing me and many others from enjoying our freedom from the bad & toxic effects of cigarrette smoke, specifically in public places, which we should all be able to share, but they don't seem to care about that too much, and this is the end result, legislation to prevent them from harming others, and spoiling the environment for non smoking residents and visitors, so that we can all use the bars, cafeterias, restaurantes etc, and stand in a queue for a Bus without somebody lighting up in front of you and making you choke & vomit.
We can only hope & pray that this is the begining of a very good thing in Spain, and that a massive change in the minds of smokers is yet to come about, and that they will suddenly see just how crazy it has been with all the smoking in Spain, before it's too late, and they end up with an national epidemic of cancers and/or various other nervous diseases.
One of my first cousins died last year of stomach cancer, they gutted her like a pig, left nothing in there, but to no avail, and she was a smoker of some 35+ years. I smoked faily lightly for no where as many years, but even after two years of having stopped, I still am suffering from a nervous condition, which means that I feel shacky inside all the time, and get constant trembling right down my left leg into my foot, and still the ocassional paralysis in the left hand side of my face, which started about 3 and a half years ago, in which I lose all feeling in the top row of teeth on the left for about an hour, and this is all due (according to one specialist) to the fact that I had a stroke at night while sleeping, at sometime back in 2000/2001 approx, casued by smoking too much, and he also suspects that I might even have had a very small/minor heart attack during my sleep as well, caused by the stroke, so I have had my warning, there won't be another, so I had to stop two years back, although I'm still paying the price for my mistake, the mistake of having smoked in the first place, and my cousin Janet is now dead and gone, she had no such warning. I think the smokers of Spain should pay attention, and take the hint that the rest of us are giving them, and quit now, while they have still got the chance, before it's too late.
Saludos and Salud para todos.
Posts: 696 | Location: Santander | Registered: 11 August 2003
i always tell ena that she needs to carry around a fake cig and take a bunch of breaks like the smokers and just relax or have a coffee during those breaks.
) and some (very few) have a smoke free policy (NO SMOKING ANYWHERE).
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And no I am not going to jump down anyones throat either!!!! I for one do not smoke where I am not allowed to, I use the smoking areas in Barajas Airport when I come through there. I appreciate that it is offensive to non smokers, but I do feel that if I stick to the "rules" I do have as much right to smoke as non smokers have not to!!!! As Santi says, if he is surrounded by 4 or 5 smokers, then he has to move. That to me is fine, they are smoking in a designated smoking space and it is his choice not to be there. I will do the same, but in reverse!!!!!
, i said that only smokers get smoking breaks.
