Could you maybe help me with the next question?
When we drive along the autopistas we see lots of wineyards, but in the touristic areas, and in contrast with France, we never found little tiendas where one can bring his own bottles to buy wine at the tap. Doesn't this exists in Spain?

You can do that, as Spaniards do with 16 liter garrafas and I suppose smaller bottles, but usually only in cooperatives and smaller village wineries. There are no high quality wineries who would sell you wine that way.

Ena's brother lives in Medina Sidonia (C�diz)and there are bars and taverns that sell wine exactly that way.

In fact, you can't buy the "home grown" stuff they offer unless you "B.Y.O.C." (Bring Your Own Container".

Saludos,
jer...

Thanks a lot for the info Gerry.

I guess there must be a serious difference in wine degustation between American and European. You probably already knew this, but we consider wine as a daily product, one or two glasses every day is considered as very healthy.
And mayby this will shock all, but it even makes part of the education of the kids to learn to appreciate wine.

In Spain the kids drink "tinto de verano", a dose of wine, diluated with "casera" lemonade.
Landwine is not at all considered as an inferior product.

Of course, here in Belgium, we don't have wine-taps, so, when we invite people, we get a good bottle from the cellar. But in Spain, this summer, I think I will search after such cooperatives or local wineries (not for 16 l garafas of course ) .

Still, I really appreciate your very good and professional advice about quality wine. I printed it out and will use it as manual next holiday in Spain, when we do some shopping before going back home.

Thanks a lot

Martine

If only we could walk into a bar/shop (in England) with our plastic container and get a refill. Saves all recycling of the glass bottles and for a drinkable house wine, it is perfect. In El Puerto de Santa Maria (not far from Medina Sidonia) you can get refills of different SHERRIES and wine vinegar.

On the question of house wine, you can buy One Litre CARTONS of Red or White at HIPERCOR (El Cortes Ingles) which are excellent both in flavour and price. I think the price was certainly under One Euro last time I bought (last month). That really is amazing value. Very quaffable for tinto de verrano or just a glass with lunch.

Nige

Actually, the conversation on this thread of late has prompted me to tell of an experience, make an observation and ask you a question Gerry...

Now, when I initially read Martine's comment about Spanish wine tasting different in Belgium than it does in Spain, I thought it would probably mostly have to do with the food that it may have been eaten with. (or perhaps just eating Belgian chocolate and drinking Belgian beer simultaneously along with the Spanish wine... ...Just kidding Martine! )

However, as I thought about it more, it brought to mind an experience I had a couple of weeks back. Recently, for my father-in-law's birthday, we took him to a bit of a ritzy restaurant where we live and the bottle of 1996 Rioja Reserva we drank had a bit of advertising hung on the neck of the bottle with a bit of a graph on it advertising the "life-span" of the wine we were drinking.

In other words, they talked about how a wine's flavor will peak after a certain period of time depending on the grape, how long it's been aged and then gradually decrease in quality little by little. I'd never heard of this and, though it certainly does make sense, makes me wonder about the type of folks, significantly more affluent than myself, who stock their 'bodegas' with old, dusty bottles of wine to be taken out and savored, Lord knows when. I wonder if this is the same principle at play in what Martine was describing...

I guess my question(s) is/are the following:

• Are you aware of a general "lifetime" norms of this sort for different Spanish wines, depending I suppose on ageing, (Crianza, Reserva, Gran Reserva) that you could share with us to keep in mind?
  
• How does this wine version of "Born-on-Dating" for Spanish wines compare with wine's from other famous wine regions?
  
• Do you have any comments, observations, etc. regarding this phenomenon? I would be interested to see how accurate, relative, subjective you feel it to be.
  

Sorry for the novel, but this has gotten quite interesting. Answer what you can Gerry. Thanks for your help.

:cheers: (Imagine those are wine glasses instead of Beer mugs... This is a wine thread for heaven's sake. )

"I guess my question(s) is/are the following:

Are you aware of a general "lifetime" norms of this sort for different Spanish wines, depending I suppose on ageing, (Crianza, Reserva, Gran Reserva) that you could share with us to keep in mind?"

There are no hard and fast rules because of the vast difference in styles from producer to producer and from region to region. In general, crianzas should drink well up to 3-5 years after release. Reservas from 5-10. Gran Reservas from 10 to 20 (and in the case of some classic Riojas even longer).

"How does this wine version of "Born-on-Dating" for Spanish wines compare with wine's from other famous wine regions?"

Again, some petite chateau Bordeaux will be good from 3-5 years, classified growth chateaux for longer periods and the great growths for decades. Again depends on the style of the producer and what he hopes to achieve.

"Do you have any comments, observations, etc. regarding this phenomenon? I would be interested to see how accurate, relative, subjective you feel it to be."

Generally, if a producer lists optimum drinking years on the label, that is the period he or she expects the wine to be drinking well.

Hi Gerry, Just wanted to say...I really appreciate your postings. Thank you for taking the time to create them. Next time I am enjoying a divine glass of vino, I'll toast to you.

Candela

Candela wrote: "Hi Gerry, Just wanted to say...I really appreciate your postings. Thank you for taking the time to create them. Next time I am enjoying a divine glass of vino, I'll toast to you."

Mil gracias.

For those interested in some great drinking at reasonable prices, check out my article on Spanish rosados in the current issue of The Wine News (also available at Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc.)

http://www.thewinenews.com/current/feat.asp

Here's a recommendation for Reserva y Cata, a good string of wine shops, which also sell on the internet at www.reservaycata.com This site has lots of good wine info written in English by one of the owners, Ernesto de Serdio.

Madrid Outskirts (Reserva y Cata Store)

Mercamadrid. Ctra. Vallecas - Villaverde km. 3,800
+917856165

Madrid Central (Reserva y Cata Stores)

C/ Ramiro II, 7
+915530402

C/ Conde de Xiquena, 13
+913190401

Sevilla (Tierra Nuestra Store)
C/ Constancia, 41
+954452119

Huelva (Tierra Nuestra Store)
C/Fernando el Cat�lico,32
+959541579

On the question of house wine, you can buy One Litre CARTONS of Red or White at HIPERCOR (El Cortes Ingles) which are excellent both in flavour and price.

Excellence, of course, being in the eye (or palate in this case) of the beholder. ;-)

That's interesting about the good value wines Gerry ! And what's more the square cartons are so much easier to carry from the supermarket, and they don't smash into little pieces if the handle breaks.

Have you read the excellent book by Julian Jeffs about SHERRY ? It's very absorbing and full of interesting snippets such as:

Sherry was being exported to England in the 15th century !
The archives at Jerez contain many early references to wine being shipped abroad. As early as 1485 there is a record of wine shipped from Puerto de Santa Maria to : "Plemma, which is in the kingdom of England" (It is presumed that Plemma is Plymouth)
In those days the vintage was already subject to strict control, and the greatest crime of all was to water down the wine !

In 1598 Shakespeare included reference to Sherry commonly known as 'sack' in his Henry IV part 2. In Act IV Scene 2, Sir John Falstaff talks about the great drink:

I would you had but the wit; 'twere better than your dukedom. Good faith, this same young sober-blooded boy doth not love me, nor a man cannot make him laugh. But that's no marvel; he drinks no wine.
There's never none of these demure boys come to any proof; for thin drink doth so overcool their blood, and making many fish meals, that they fall into a kind of male green-sickness; and then when they marry, they get wenches. They are generally fools and cowards which some of us should be too, but for inflammation.
A good sherry-sack hath a two-fold operation in it. It ascends me into the brain, dries me there all the foolish and dull and crudy vapours which environ it, makes it apprehensive, quick, forgetive, full of nimble, fiery, and delectable shapes, which, delivered o'er to the voice, the tongue, which is the birth, becomes excellent wit.
The second property of your excellent sherry is the warming of the blood, which, before cold and settled, left the liver white and pale, which is the badge of pusillanimity and cowardice. But the sherry warms it, and makes it course from the inwards to the parts' extremes; it illuminateth the face, which, as a beacon, gives warning to all the rest of this little kingdom, man, to arm; and then the vital commoners and inland petty spirits muster me all to their captain, the heart; who, great and puffed up with his retinue, doth any deed of courage. And this valour comes of sherry. So that skill in the weapon is nothing without sack, for that sets it a-work; and learning a mere hoard of gold kept by a devil, till sack commences it and sets it in act and use. Hereof comes it that Prince Harry is valiant; for the old blood he did naturally inherit of his father he hath, like lean, sterile, and bare land, manured, husbanded, and tilled, with excellent endeavour of drinking good, and good store of fertile sherry, that he is become very hot and valiant.
If I had a thousand sons, the first human principle I would teach them should be to forswear thin potations, and to addict themselves to sack.

cheers Nige

When we go camping we make sure we have plenty of those cartons of wine frozen to take with us for the weekend!! They end up like alcoholic slushpuppies!! The favourite carton so far has been Flor de Castilla

If anyone on multimadrid is in the New York area this summer and would like to attend one of these classes, call Sarah at 212-239-1200 ext. 6, mention my name and ask for the special discount.

ARTISANAL CHEESE CENTER
500 West 37th Street (10th Ave.) - Second Floor
NY, NY 10018
Tel:� 212-239-1200; 877-797-1200 (toll-free)
For more information, contact:� www.artisanalcheese.com

Spanish Wine & Cheese Classes with Gerry Dawes

Gerry Dawes is America’s foremost expert on Spanish wine and one of our top authorities on Spanish food.� On the July-August issue of Food Arts magazine, publishers Michael & Ariane Batterberry wrote:� "Gerry Dawes, the gastronomy/travel writer known for good reasons in wine and periodical circles as ‘Mr. Spain"� (is) an inexhaustible fund of knowledge on his favorite subject. "� He has spent the three decades photographing Spain, writing about its wine and food, and giving lectures extolling the best of Spain's incredibly diverse range of wine and food.�� His wine and food writings have been published in Food and Wine, The New York Times, Wine Enthusiast, Decanter, Wine, Martha Stewart Living and many others.� He is a contributor Food Arts,The Wine News, Sant�, Restauradores (Spain) and Cocina Futuro (Spain).� He has spoken on Spanish wine, food and travel at the Smithsonian Institution, Macy's De Gustibus, the Culinary Institute of America, the James Beard Foundation, the Santa Fe Wine & Chile Fiesta and many others.�� He is the Chairman for the James Beard Annual Auction Dinner 2003, whose theme is "The Flavors of Spain." (November 16 at the Essex House Hotel.)

Six & Six Featuring Spanish White Wines� $75.00

Wednesday, August 13 2003 6:30 - 8:30

Gerry Dawes will offer his expertise in pairing Spanish white wines with a specially selected group of Spanish cheeses. We believe, because of their refreshing, palate-cleansing acidity and less tannic nature, that white wines with cheese are often more rewarding than reds. In this class, we will sample six interesting regional indigenous varietal white wines from all over Spain and pair them with six Spanish cheeses. Our first Spanish white wine and cheese class was a great success.

Six & Six Featuring Spanish Red Wines

Thursday, August 21 2003 6:30 - 8:30� $75.00

Gerry Dawes will share his extensive knowledge of Spain's red wine varieties and the cheeses that compliment them. This is not to be missed opportunity to experience a cross section of delicious Spanish red wines paired with some very special cheeses.� Will include red wines from La Rioja, Ribera del Duero, Catalu�a, and a few surprises.

Six & Six The Surprising dessert Wines

Thursday, August 28 2003 6:30 - 8:30 $75.00

In this course, Gerry Dawes will share his passion for some of the surprising dessert wines of Spain. Of course, there will be a sherry or two, along with a late harvest moscatel from Navarra, a wine from Malaga, a luscious cosecha miel wine from Alicante, and a splendid late harvest red Priorato, and perhaps a surprise or two. Along with the cheese we wil be serving some of Artisanal's special condiments (Spanish pimenton [paprika], nuts, tomato jam, membillo, fig cake, plum cake), which complement the cheeses. We predict this will be one of the most impressive and surprising tastings. The combinations of the dessert wines and cheeses are delcious and intriguing.