That is absolutely correct, Roland, but I think you are on a losing battle there!!! If people choose to boycott those places where there are smokers, then that is their right and their preference. Just as it is a smokers choice not to go to a place where they cannot smoke! Do you never go to places where there are smokers? Will you blame the smokers if you get cancer, or blame yourself for knowingly going into a smokey atmosphere?

quote:

Smokers need to be thoughtful of those around them -- non-smokers, children, artwork.

Ah, but that's the thing...if this were the case, then there probably wouldn't be the need to legislate non-smoking or any other health and safety matter... Bars and restaurants could also do a lot to alleviate the problem by having some kind of ventilation.

But clearly it is not the case here in Spain! As one who has lived here in the past and now lives here with a three-year-old child, I can count *two* times that smokers have asked if I minded their smoking in his (or my) vicinity. One was a mm-er (Belen!), the other was Christian's cousin's wife--who I'm sure heard us talk about such things before.

I would love to see people become a bit more sensitive here, but I accept that this is an aspect of Spanish culture that might never change or might take a long time to change. As I see it, cigarettes are to Spaniards as guns are to Americans. To me, both seem to represent an irrational philosophic belief that an external object that can cause harm to others is a touchstone of personal freedom...

My biggest fear about smoking is that Oscar (my son) will not survive childhood without multiple cigarette burns on his face, as his head is just at the level of the casual street smoker's swinging arm. He's had some close calls, but I think he's already getting paranoid about it.

One of the most out of whack smoking incidents I've seen here was when Christian and I went to tour the "Las Monedas" cave in Cantabria, which has prehistoric art dating back 15,000 years. When the guide arrived, he asked a guy to extinguish his cigarette prior to entering the cave--the guy was totally taken aback and did not want to comply!

I do think that most expat smokers are aware of who they are smoking in front of. I remember when I met Oscar :ks: I threw my cigarette away when he wandered across!

You have to remember that smokers are aware of what they are doing, and that it is an addiction!!

madsue wrote...

quote:

If people choose to boycott those places where there are smokers, then that is their right and their preference. Just as it is a smokers choice not to go to a place where they cannot smoke!

ahhhh but that is not so. you see, the whole problem is that smokers DO go into places (eg. metro) where they are not allowed to smoke and they smoke there while i have never seen a non-smoker go into a the smoking section of a restaurant (a place where obviously one can smoke here) and start yelling at the smokers when they light up.

see the difference. if you don't, i will go to the point. while non-smokers respect the rights of smokers to smoke (eg. in the smoking section of a restaurant), the smokers do not respect the rights of the non-smokers in the places where smoking is prohibited (eg. the metro).

i understand the reflex response of a smoker when asked to put out the cig, it is a natural reaction as they are very persecuted in this day and age HOWEVER, if they were more respectful of non-smokers and respected the non-smoking rules, then they wouldnot be "attacked" at much and woudlhave no reason to get defensive at all.

by the way, to touch on the original topic of this thread (not smoking on trains), i think they should have one smoking car (maybe the last car on a train). smokers could all sit together there and it would not affect the rest of the cars/passengers.

saludos,
jer...

quote:

Do you never go to places where there are smokers?

Since I am the supportive husband of a DJ, I often go to places with large amounts of smoke. But it is my choice and I therefore have no leg to stand on if I decide to complain about the smokers.

Since I don't have a car and can't afford taxis all the time I am forced to use the metro. Therefore when someone smokes on the platform I am forced to inhale smoke.

quote:

Will you blame the smokers if you get cancer, or blame yourself for knowingly going into a smokey atmosphere?

Only if I get lung cancer.

I wonder how a smoker on a Metro platform would react if someone came along, unzipped his pants, and urinated on him. After all, there are no "No Urinating" signs anywhere, the urine is harmless, and the resulting smell is just as unpleasant. Urinating on the platform is probably against the law but then so is smoking on the platform.

Although I'll never stoop that low I'm seriously tempted to bring along an air freshner and spray it directly at any smoker on the Metro. After all, there's no law against that.

- A smoking area in a restaurant is like a pissing area in a pool

hey Roland...

quote:

I'm seriously tempted to bring along an air freshner and spray it directly at any smoker on the Metro. After all, there's no law against that.

i love the idea!!! :cheers: i think i am going to carry a small one around with me every day.

quote:

- A smoking area in a restaurant is like a pissing area in a pool

in most cases you are right but i must say i was impressed by a restaurant in ny many years ago. they had 2 dining rooms, one smoking and one non. it was great!!! the smoke stayed in the smoking room since the kitchen had 2 doors and there was never an open door between the 2 dining rooms. it was perfect!!!

saludos,
jer...

This post is so emotive (which is as it should be!) I AGREE with everything you, jer and roland, are saying!! I for one would love to see someone be sprayed for smoking in a place they shouldn�t!

Jer, you say there should be one carriage for smoking on trains. That was been my experience on the train I took to Salamanca. I was put in a smoking carriage, the others were non smoking carriages. Smokers and non-smokers were not mixed. And as I said above, I was very surprised that I was even given the choice!!!!!

This smoking bad on RENFE trains�� How is it going to work? Does that mean that if the train is timetabled for a total of say 5 � hours then you can smoke for the full journey time or not for the last half hour? Can you smoke in all carriages or special designated ones? If a train travels for a journey of over 5 hours, thus allowing smoking, then it is timetabled for a 3-hour journey then it will smell of smoke so what is the point?

Just an observation� I was in the local medical centre the other day and I was the last patient to see the GP (El Medico). She lit up a cigarette, this was amazing I could not have seen this in the U.K.or The Netherlands.

An observation on Max�s post of the 7th October. There has been a complete smoking ban on Dutch (NS) trains since 1 January. 2004. I know I lived there until February this year.

Thank you for your correction about Dutch trains. I can just talk about French and German trains, which I have used in the last year, and smoking was allowed. I just heard that comment in Belgium, so I guess the people who said it was wrong, and I did not checked anywhere before posting it here. Sorry for that.

With regards to smoking in doctors' waiting rooms, that's the only place where I complain, always, in Spain. Then people back me. But if you don't walk the first step, everybody just stand the smoke :-(

I was in Anton Martin market last week. I was walking up to one of the counters to buy some lovely fresh vegetables, when I noticed that the attendent was smoking while serving up the fruit and veg! I changed my mind about buying from him.

Cervantes

Well I smoke while I cook, and everyone is still here so far Is that not taking it a bit too far, Cervantes? After all there are hundreds (ok, exaggeration) of chemicals on fruit and veg to keep them at optimum freshness anyway!!!!
Just soak everything in Milton and I am sure they would have been fine

Debate this Friday - Smoking in public places. More information HERE

Maybe I missed the thread being offline so long but has there been any discussion about the crackdown on smoking on the Metro?

One word: YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY! :cheers:

The most interesting part for me was standing in the front carriage of a train on line 5 and distinctly smelling cigarette smoke. I looked around and didn�t see anyone smoking. So I got off at the next stop, knocked on the conductor�s window, and told him his cigarette smoke was filling the passenger cabin behind him (a slight exagerration.) He apologized profusely and put it out.

Ah, the sweet lack of smell of progress.